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Related Information to Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 67 of 79
Dbackers, the whole point here is the Church - Page 67 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 6th Aug, 2009 - 1:27pm
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Mormon Doctrine on Plural Marriage - This Thread goes deep into all the angles of Mormon Polygamy, the requirement of Celestial Marriage which once encompassed Plural Marriage and the current standing of it with the modern Church. Also deeply analyzed is Joseph Smith's secret practise of it that latter lead to his death. Controversial Mormon Issue. Related Information to Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...
Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 67
My only disagreement with you JB is number four. It seems like the Church has been very clear on the History of Polygamy, without focusing too much on the topic.
From the Church Website under the topic of Polygamy:
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Polygamy (Plural Marriage) ...At certain times and for His specific purposes, God, through His prophets, has directed the practice of plural marriage (sometimes called polygamy), which means one man having more than one living wife at the same time. In obedience to direction from God, Latter-day Saints followed this practice for about 50 years during the 1800s but officially ceased the practice of such marriages after the Manifesto was issued by President Woodruff in 1890. Since that time, plural marriage has not been approved by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and any member adopting this practice is subject to losing his or her membership in the Church. |
It seems, especially in the academic circles of the Church, that the topic of Plural Marriage is discussed in detail.
| Rather off topic, but... I know there are keys of Sealings of Marriages, but I do not recall in any of the writings of the earlier apostles that there was anything titled particularly "the keys of Plural Marriage" or "the Ordinance of Plural Marriage" as apposed to "monogamous Marriage" or the "ordinance of monogamous Marriage". I believe John Taylor stated there was no distinction in the eternal sense. It would seem to me that plural marriage is only a repetition of the key of Sealing, and nothing more. So the keys are there, they are just are not being practiced, per the commandment of the Lord (not dissimilar to the Book of Mormon prohibition on the practice). |
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Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural
| QUOTE (dbackers @ 5-Aug 09, 6:05 PM) |
| but officially ceased the practice of such marriages after the Manifesto was issued by President Woodruff in 1890. Since that time, plural marriage has not been approved by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and any member adopting this practice is subject to losing his or her membership in the Church. |
But we know through history that's not accurate and the Church knows it.
Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... Studies Doctrine Mormon
| QUOTE (Dbackers) |
| It seems like the Church has been very clear on the History of Polygamy. |
This is where reading this Thread becomes important. We have shown many instances where that is not true, in fact I mentioned it earlier that even a Prophet had a plural marriage performed AFTER the manifesto. There was even an instance where one of the Church manuals was printed to make it sound like the early Brethren were in monogamous relationships. I believe that was recently changed due to some complaints of those among the Membership that are more aware. Now regardless to you agreeing with me or not my point is what is the answer? What is the truth?
Page 67 Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural
You got me there.
Unofficially it was still being practiced by some pretty high ranking leaders in the Church some ten to twenty years after the fact.
I suppose the declaration is technically right (based on the Manifesto), though not historically accurate.
Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural
| QUOTE (dbackers @ 5-Aug 09, 7:22 PM) |
| Unofficially it was still being practiced by some pretty high ranking leaders in the Church some ten to twenty years after the fact. |
Unofficially? Marriages were performed AFTER the manifesto with full approval and those marriages did not lead to excommunication as the Church statement tried to hint. How is the declaration technically right then?
| Rather off topic, but... In this thread I believe we mentioned the several instances of these post-Manifesto Marriages. |
Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...
I am wrong on this topic, and have been thoroughly chastised.
I was going to say
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I am coming from a very narrow definition of "officially", meaning based on the "official" stance of the Church as presented to the world. At the time the "official" stance of the church was that the Manifesto was valid. Unofficially, outside of the purview of the manifesto, these marriages were being performed on a limited basis. I am splitting hairs, and admit that my view is somewhat tenuous. |
But I realized that I am splitting hairs for the sake of an argument.
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Alma 39: 13 13 That ye turn to the Lord with all your mind, might, and strength; that ye lead away the hearts of no more to do wickedly; but rather return unto them, and acknowledge your faults and that wrong which ye have done. |
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Maybe the Church will someday acknowledge where they have done wrong and then move on with the conversation.
No institution is perfect I suppose (but I feel the Church is my best bet at this time, as I have seen fault in all institutions).
Maybe the Church will someday acknowledge where they have done wrong and then move on with the conversation.
No institution is perfect I suppose (but I feel the Church is my best bet at this time, as I have seen fault in all institutions).
Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... - Page 67
| QUOTE (dbackers @ 5-Aug 09, 7:54 PM) |
| I am wrong on this topic, and have been thoroughly chastised. |
Who chastised you?
| QUOTE |
| I was going to say, I am coming from a very narrow definition of "officially", meaning based on the "official" stance of the Church as presented to the world. At the time the "official" stance of the church was that the Manifesto was valid. Unofficially, outside of the purview of the manifesto, these marriages were being performed on a limited basis. I am splitting hairs, and admit that my view is somewhat tenuous. |
I see what you're saying. Elder Oaks said the following:
| QUOTE |
| Some have suggested that it is morally permissible to lie to promote a good cause. For example, some Mormons have taught or implied that lying is okay if you are lying for the Lord"¦ As far as concerns our own church and culture, the most common allegations of lying for the Lord swirl around the initiation, practice, and discontinuance of polygamy. The whole experience with polygamy was a fertile field for deception. It is not difficult for historians to quote LDS leaders and members in statements justifying, denying, or deploring deception in furtherance of this religious practice. My heart breaks when I read of circumstances in which wives and children were presented with the terrible choice of lying about the whereabouts or existence of a husband or father on the one hand or telling the truth and seeing him go to jail on the other. These were not academic dilemmas. A father in jail took food off the table and fuel from the hearth. Those hard choices involved collisions between such fundamental emotions and needs as a commitment to the truth versus the need for loving companionship and relief from cold and hunger. My heart also goes out to the Church leaders who were squeezed between their devotion to the truth and their devotion to their wives and children and to one another. To tell the truth could mean to betray a confidence or a cause or to send a brother to prison. There is no academic exercise in that choice! It is also clear that polygamy did not end suddenly with the 1890 Manifesto. Polygamous relationships sealed before that revelation was announced continued for a generation. The performance of polygamous marriages also continued for a time outside the United States, where the application of the Manifesto was uncertain for a season. It appears that polygamous marriages also continued for about a decade in some other areas among leaders and members who took license from the ambiguities and pressures created by this high-level collision between resented laws and reverenced doctrines. I do not know what to think of all of this, except I am glad I was not faced with the pressures those good people faced. My heart goes out to them for their bravery and their sacrifices, of which I am a direct beneficiary. I will not judge them. That judgment belongs to the Lord, who knows all of the circumstances and the hearts of the actors, a level of comprehension and wisdom not approached by even the most knowledgeable historians. (BYU, speech, 1993) |
The reason he said he does not know what to think of all this is because the topic he was talking about was Gospel Teachings about Lying. There is nothing to hide really. The early brethren practiced plural marriage post-manifesto and lied about it.
| QUOTE |
| No institution is perfect I suppose (but I feel the Church is my best bet at this time, as I have seen fault in all institutions). |
What do you mean by institution? Isn't the Church "perfect" according to LDS doctrine?
Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 67
Dbackers, the whole point here is the Church is 'ashamed' of the topic of Plural Marriage. They do not treat it as part of an ordinance introduced by Joseph Smith that was regular back then. The reason for its discontinuance was based on people who are not Members deciding that it should not be practiced. The ironic thing is that the USA was supposed to be a place that upheld the freedom of religion, but it was not meant to be because even the modern Church will not accept it.
TOPIC: Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...