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Islam: The Propaganda War - Page 4

Is this a reference to the Iran-Iraq war during the 80s? Saddam of course invaded Iran and not the other way round. Most people in current Iraq despise Saddam and what he did to Iran. I do not see this as a hurdle between Iranian Iraqi relations.

Al-Sadr was alleged to have fled to Iran during the security crackdown although he denies this and details are murky at best. I don't see what this has to do with anything?

Actually Iran has been a major broker of Shi'a Sunni unity. If Iran had really decided to cause conflict in Iraq trust me Sunnis would have seen very very dark days in Iraq.

Other Arab states are led by ineffective puppet Governments who as recently demonstrated by the US weapons pledge conference are more worried about their own Shi'a populations and hence do not want to see a strong Shi'a majority in Iraq.

As I have mentioned before that Israel is an illegal state which you dismissed as Islamic extremist rhetoric. You asked for documentation and I provided it. Hence I do not consider it as a country with legal boundaries, question is do you? and why?

Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank are key parts to any solution which your solution does not even address. Egypt and Jordan are not "occupying" any illegal territory hence it would be illogical to ask them to concede their land.

War Propaganda Islam

I believe Israel has as much legal claim to the land as the Palestinians for these reason.

1. All states and countries have been created from lands that have been formerly owned by different cultures and Peoples. From The Encarta Encyclopedia

The ownership changed consistently since the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. This is true of all the countries in the Middle east and around the World none who have really maintained permanent borders for more then a few hundred years or less.

When it comes to calling any area of land a country, it remains a country only as long as it can defend itself from invaders. To the winner who declares their own borders and can defend them is given the right to declare themselves a country. England is only a country because it could defend itself During WW2.. The Austro-Hungarian Empire lost extensive land in the WW1 resulting in a change of countries and states. There are Thousands of Hungarian Rumanians and that were stuck in Romania because of the loss of land during the War War 1.

The Israeli/Palestinian issue has Parallels throughout History.

2. I live in Southern Arizona, That was Purchased From Mexico, While other places were won in the Mexican-American War. I in fact travel and live in so-called occupied territory once owned by Mexico. Mexico may claim that they had the land taken from them, but they also took the land from the native indians who stole it from earlier occupants.

2. The Ottoman Empire owned the area of Palestine. Before them others owned the area. When, in WW1 the Ottomans lost, britain took control over the area. They, as the victor, had the right to decide how to partition the area. From the British Balfour declaration 1922.

The Mandate was terminated May 14, 1948 by Britain. Israel then declared its independence. The new state came under immediate attack from the Palestinian population and Arabs of the surrounding countries, including Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon.
In my opinion when Israel won that War it won the right to determine its Borders. It will lose the right to declare its own borders when another invader takes the land as it is with all countries.

That is my view on the situation. Ultimately I think Israel will remain the Owner of the Area and a country with the right to declare its Borders. Or the Arab Nations will refute Israel's right to declare itself a country and take back the area by force. There is no other way.

Edited: dbackers on 3rd Aug, 2007 - 7:32pm

Islam: The Propaganda War Islam Studies

Where is the Jewish homeland? Their former residences in Europe or Palestine!
The propaganda began in Europe to place them in Palestine and as a 3rd column against the Arab tide of freedom agaist the Ottoman. They did take the land they won but the rule is he who has the biggest guns gets to rule.
Having a weapon does not make one win! It is how you use it and the discipline and resolve of those who are unified! By default, propaganda, and US help, Israel wins by default!

Page 4 War Propaganda Islam

dbackers your outlook on Israel/Palestine is one that I havent heard before. You seem to suggest "might is right". Your theory that a country is only determined by its ability to defend its borders and the right of invaders to claim land is very...different. Such a view would lead to perpetual war with constant fighting over the right to claim land.

We do not live in medieval times anymore. The sword doesn't decide everything anymore. There is international legislation, there are Universal Human Rights which must be respected.

There is a way. Dissolving the zionist entity and replacing it with a democratic state representative of both Palestinians and Jews is the way forward. No fighting, no dispute just peace.

War Propaganda Islam

Not really might is right, but ability to protect a sovereign Nation involves some ability to defend borders.

How is that going to happen without force.

That is like saying that the Kasmir situation in India should just be solved by one side giving in and the other side taking over.

Or Christians if they would just give up their desires to be Christians in Darfur they would stop being killed. Come on Christians, don't you know that if you give in to Muslim demands then there can be peace (no sarcasm intended).

Of course every dispute can result in peace if one side just stopped fighting and submitted themselves to the other side. Israel will and should not give up that which they have

Israel is the most democratic state in the entire region

Arabs in Israel can vote for whoever they want.
Arabs in Israel can worship freely.
Arabs in Israel are entitled to the same state education as all other Israelis.
Arabs are members of the Israeli parliament and ministers in the government

I do not think that the same rights can be found in most Muslim countries to the same extent for their Jewish populations

Please correct me if my belief is in error.

Um.
Saudi Arabia and the punishment for stealing.
Stoning adulterers.
If you convert from Muslim to, well, anything you can die.
Sunni/Shiite suicide bombings
Palestinian Suicide bombings
The entire history of Muslim (as well as christian) conquest of the middle east and Europe.

That is the only way that most Muslims in the Middle East have dealt with dissent and disagreement.

Islam: The Propaganda War

The sword is a tool of terror to cut off people heads and settle disputes!
Try Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

Islam Propaganda War - Page 4

Go ahead, blame Islam

Let's be honest about how much all of our most cherished ideals have contributed to the death and destruction around us. Ref. Source 2m