Related Information to Atheists Not To Be Feared!

Atheists Not To Be Feared! - Page 11

Took me awhile to get here and Reply. Thanks for sharing, now here goes...

Yes, but the main question is at what cost. For people without something hindering them or giving them guidelines / rules that preservation can come at the cost of the lives of others.

Historically, there is no basis for this thinking it may be just your view.

That is right and the culture or tradition can act as the person's religion thus making them take a certain course of action.

I do not think it is rare at all but very common. The difference is people do not openly say "I'm going to use you for 'x' or 'y'". Using others for their own gain is a natural human trait regardless of religion, education or otherwise.

It is wrong for you because you have told yourself it is wrong. There are cultures that teach otherwise, governments that project that as their mission and so forth. Even with that most extreme example there are lesser things for which man needs guidance whether it either comes from religion or culture: marriage, children, social dealings, etc.

Basically, what I am saying is that if a person chooses the route of no religion then he replaces it with some other school of thought: culture, tradition, their parents' teaching and so forth. Men do not suddenly act on their own, they do what they do based on experience, education and their own will. Religion is a means of channeling that. Without religion there is no specific channel. Now, I use "religion" loosely here, because there is a whole separate Topic of both false / good religion.

Feared To Atheists

JB,

I agree completely that morality cannot be separated from culture and human experience. Your point about murder is well-taken. In Aztec society, it was not only proper to kill captured warriors, it was absolutely necessary to preserve the earth. For them, killing another human being in such a fashion was not murder, it was a blessing for the earth and its people as required by the gods.

For the Israelites, it was not murder to kill the inhabitants of the Promised Land when God ordered them to do so--even women and children (Sometimes God ordered them to spare the young virgins for their own use).

My essential point would be that if someone bases their moral foundation on a god or gods, there is no objectivity to it--it becomes merely the whims of that particular deity and since the designs and purposes of gods are generally declared to be beyond human understanding, it becomes no more than a matter of following their orders.

I think morality is most properly based in human nature. There are no wrong needs. If a human actually needs something, it is good for them. As I said, a person ought to seek that which is actually good for them. If my needs come into conflict with yours, the best manner to meet them both is through cooperation, not competition. That is how families are based, then tribes, and eventually countries.

Of course individuals choose otherwise, we see that all the time, among believers and non-believers alike. Some individuals place their desires so far above others, they are willing to betray the most basic relationships, such as those with their family.

Atheists Not To Be Feared! Beliefs Religious General

You see religion is just a system of belief, therefore if your belief is that killing is good and you accept that then you will act it out. Such is why people then and today say 'god' said it and they killed, but it may in fact be just them saying it. A modern example are terror based groups who kill and say god said they should do it. However this only seeks to show that everyone has a version of god or a different god, not that god doesn't actually exist. It also shows that regardless to divinity or not men will act based on majority support for their ideals and label it 'god' if they have to.

"Good" is a loose term, what may be 'good' for you may not be for someone else, again it is based on what I gave above - school of thought equals your perceptions of good / evil, good / bad, god / no god, etc. Belief in god means that you no longer rely solely on your school of thought or culture but are willing to submit to what you see as a being wiser that you. In other words you are thought what "good" really does mean. I will like to interject here but it is also necessary to show my trend of thought by saying of all the gods I have read about none was like Jesus Christ who not only said, but did and acted on it even to giving his own life. Most other claimed gods seemed to act in a royalty / commoner manner. Therefore seeing such an example I will submit my own perception to try and match what is being thought because I see myself as not being as 'human' or 'god-like' as the example given. This is where standards, principles, morality and so forth comes into play. My argument is that when someone declares themselves an Atheist they leave themselves with very little to 'look up to' other than other men who had their own shortcomings. In general this leaves plenty of room for them to nowdecide what is good and what is not.

Page 11 Feared To Atheists

Name: Darrell
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Comments: So called inherent knowledge of good and evil, such as not to kill, steal, etc. As I have read is nothing more than learned animal behaviors of early man passed down to generations. Look at a pride of lions, or wolves, or any other mammal or animal in the animal kingdom. Killing, and stealing is born out of survival instincts. When food is lacking and you only have a little, someone else is hungry and instict drives him to fight over food, steal food, kill others for food. Etc. Killing, and stealing, and lying were all born out of survival needs. Greed turned them into something more. As a society we have learned that these things are wrong because in the beginning we needed to protect our food sources from others. Lions, steal and kill for food and survival, their are animals and insects that practice deception or lying you could say for the art of survival and gathering food. We are no different, we just have a higher evolved conscious that takes us to the next level with it. Man has always sought answers to what he did not understand, this is the beginning of religion and gods with man, trying to explain what he does not understand. things we know now in this age that 200 years ago we could not fathom due to advance in science and discovery.

Feared To Atheists

Several theist members since this topic began in 2003 have felt no compunction in expressing their convictions that atheists are somewhere between less than human and barely human.

From their very words and modes of expression, the conclusion to be drawn is that religious faith enables and encourages them to hold firmly to this conviction.

Can it be any wonder then, that atheists deplore the kind of mind set that can lead to this?

I read among the posts the admonition to an atheist that this was a christian site. The category including this topic is, but only by default, for there is no atheist category.

Being new here, and a convinced and convicted atheist from the time I began to reflect on the subject at about age 11, I probably fit the life-long atheist image that so few theists here have ever encountered. I have been involved in discussion groups like this since 1995 and have propounded upon the immense virtues of atheism [its rationality, reason and logic] vis-a-vis theism most of this time.

It was pleasing to note the reasonableness and politeness of the few atheists that posted here and compare that with the imperious questioning of their moral values, ethical standards and general worthiness by an occasionally patronising theist majority.

I shall, of course, not disturb the good impression that atheists have established and wish to promote with equal patience their insistence that we are all human beings first and believers/unbelievers somewhat lower on the scale. It is our human-ness, our humanity, combined with a gregarious nature and our intelligence that leads us to develop moral codes, customs and laws. But all these can be encompassed in the infinite wisdom of the Golden Rule, a rule vastly older than christian doctrine, whose origins are somewhere to be found in our earliest ancestors and which is a rule unconsciously practiced in many groups of "higher" mammals to a greater or lesser degree.

I did read among the posts a declaration of how stiff-necked, recalcitrant and stubborn atheists can be in holding to their convictions, that they show no inclination to acceptance of new or even old ideas. But may I point out with respect that theists cannot see their own inflexibility for the plank in their own eye. Are you, as Christians, open to the idea that the atheist view has some value? From all the posts I have read [and I have read them all] inevitably the resounding reply is an unequivocal NO!

Respect and politeness is a two-way street. If you expect these to be accorded to you, then the theist must, in all fairness, accord the same to the atheist.

From what I have read so far, that is asking too much.

Atheists Not To Be Feared!

A Christian site? This is an International site where Topics are categorized according to subject. You are in fact now posting in a RELIGIOUS Board where the original Poster sought to debate / convince / suggest to RELIGIOUS Members within the Community that Atheists need not be feared.

An atheist category? For me that makes no sense and I will tell you why. Members are not allowed to mention Religion outside of the Religious related Boards.

I do not get the point of your Post really, it seems more like a complaint that you think others should not have an opinion and if you had your way you will be more sarcastic that you are in this Post. What is your worthwhile input into the Topic of why "Atheists Not To be Feared!"?

Atheists To Feared! - Page 11

This begs the question, "Are atheists really to be feared?" The a priori presumption is that many here believe that atheists are demonic manifestations of the Master of Darkness. One or two of the responses so far have declared as much. The first three paras of my post lamented this situation but drew no response from you.

The presumption in the wording of the topic's title, to my way of thinking, demeans religious faith. It presumes, firstly, that for some their faith is defenseless against assault and, secondly, that atheists are slavering after the entrails of every believer.

How does one counter such specious implications?

The tenor of the faithful indicates two modes of approach . The first is that an obsequious grovelling approach from the atheist to a depth and degree admired by the theist is necessary. The second is the Sword of Damocles, the presumption that a few perfectii operate the controls with unquestionable authority and that authority springs from an unassailable conviction that all of faith should aspire to.

I have no desire to provoke hostility. But I have a desire to be treated with the same respect that you expect from me and I have encountered no such trend in this topic. If you do not "get the point" of this then a genuine attempt by atheists, polite, respectful and enthusiastic, will not be greeted with the same demeanour in debate.

As to the "input" you crave....may I put it this way by posing a question to illustrate?

How would you expect an atheist to counter the declaration, ATHEISTS ARE NOT AGENTS OF EVIL, which is only a rewording of the original?

One or two atheists have taken up the gauntlet and bravely attempted to convince theists of our peaceful intent and that atheism is not composed of an outrageously fundamentalist evangelising horde eager to lay about the enemy with sword and mace. Atheism has no banner or standard; no war-like call to arms; no anthems, hymns or patriotic songs; it has no doctrine or dogma; no endless commentaries, concordances and catachetical tomes.

It has no evangelising tradition....but, it will mount an implacable defense when challenged.

Lastly, it seems that a few theists here have pretensions to a knowledge of atheism to the extent that they can define it in a manner that will brook no opposition.

With respect I will put my own position; I cannot remember a time when I thought that the supernatural had any credibility. I'm utterly convinced that such phenomena are the constructs of human imagination and exist nowhere else. I'm utterly convinced that our entire Universe and whatever else there is is explainable through the agency of the human intellect using the scientific method.

There are two possible limits to consider; [1] The age of our sun. [2] The finiteness of our genetics.

Can you accept my view with equanimity and without expressions of outrage and offense?

I can accept yours with calm consideration. Am I not entitled to the same?

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Atheists To Feared! General Religious Beliefs - Page 11

You do realize it was an Atheist or someone professed to be such that actually started this Thread and not someone of Faith questioning Athiesm.

What response are you looking for?

What respect are you looking for? If you find a Topic is not 'respectable' then why respond to it?

I'm convinced each day that the more I know is the less I know and ultimately I know nothing so go forward with human intellect and have no banner or slogan or song, it is fine for you to do so because each man acts on his school of thought. The same is in religion, all is based on circumstance, environment and factors that influence thought but if you find a Topic and suddenly enter it saying we are not demons then say why so rather than tell us how much you do not like this Topic, in doing so it is not constructive.

Rather off topic, but...
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