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Mormons - Shaven or Bearded? - Page 5

Justice, I do not think you understand what I am asking . In few words, what I am saying is that you know the Brethren's counsel about facial hair but you have a problem with in-grown hair. Good. But then you said that if your Priesthood leader asks you to shave it, you would do it even though you have this problem.

But doesn't the counsel of the Brethren applies to you, also? If their counsel is more important than your problem, then why your Priesthood leader needs to tell you about it in order for you to do it when the Brethren have already talked about the matter? Do you understand what I mean?

Bearded Shaven Mormons

I'm not sure. Maybe I just don't understand what you're trying to ask.

To my knowledge, "the Brethren" have made no comment or declaration, or offered any counsel, regarding facial hair to the "average member." They have made guidelines for all General Authorities, all Temple workers, all missionaries, all CES employees, and maybe others. Each is mentioned specifically. But, no statement like this has been made for a "regular Joe" like me. I do not fall in line with any of the people who they specifically mention to not have facial hair.

Now that I think about it, when I was asked to be early morning seminary instructor, the CES Director in our area did ask me if I felt a beard was appropriate for a seminary teacher. I told him why I had a beard and told him if he asked me to shave it I will. He said, "I won't ask." He never brought it up again in 3 years. I even reminded him many times that I was willing. He always simply said, "It's okay, I won't ask you to do that."

They have been specific on who is not to have facial hair. Logic tells me if they did not want "all male members" to have facial hair they would state such.

Maybe I'm not "reading between the lines" in what the leaders are saying. I feel no one has asked me, an executive secretary in a Ward, to shave. Once they do I will.

When I am asked to, or it keeps me out of the Temple, I'll shave.

I realize it's not the facial hair issue you're curious about, but the principle behind it. So, you could apply it to any similar thing.

Let me turn the tables a bit and put me on the side of asking. The Church has set guidelines for Youth and their appearance. They do not like wild hair, or even overly long hair on their young men. They should be preparing to serve a mission. Well, my son, who was 17 at the time, decided he wanted to grow his hair very long. I was opposed. I told him that I did not want him to grow it long. He said no. He grew it long anyway. Did I love him less for it? No. But, it did hurt me that growing his hair long was more important than my wishes.

Right or wrong, I asked him not to. Same with a Church leader who asks me to shave my beard. Right or wrong, they asked me. It's their responsibility whether it's right or wrong if I obey. If I do not obey, then it is my responsibility. It's not very often we can have the responsibility removed from us for our actions. But, with the previous conditions still applying, if our Priesthood leader asks us to do something, we are no longer responsible if we obey. That's a perfect situation, I'd think.

Edited: Justice on 12th Sep, 2006 - 9:05pm

Mormons - Shaven or Bearded? Studies Doctrine Mormon

Justice, sorry, but I cannot see this Thread go message after message over the same thing, so permit me to spell it out for you:

1. You have facial hair

2. The Brethren gave us a 'soft' suggestion that we shave clean, just because they do not literally say all Priesthood (which is done for a logical reason), it does not mean they would not like to see it happen, the same way they do not tell everyone to dress formal / semi-formal for Church because you just cannot expect it from everyone, but it does not mean they would not like to see it happen.

3. You do not shave because you have a medical issue (no problem there)

4. So a local leader comes and tells you to shave and all of a sudden your medical issue is not a problem, because a local leader personally requested it

Sorry, but that sounds weird to me.

It is like saying... I know we are strongly suggested to wear white shirts by the Brethren, but I cannot wear white shirts because white makes me break out in a rash, but if a local leader told me to I would. (By the way, we have a Thread on the white shirt issue, I used it here as an example only).

Offtopic but, Please read your Introduction Thread for replies. As for the rest of this Topic it is wise to read from the beginning before replying so that you do not repeat information already here and can better understand the intention of continued Discussion.

Lastly, I would like to add that I believe local leaders are called to lead us in matters of the Church: lessons, meetings, organize, etc., but ultimately the Priesthood Holder must govern himself and family in righteousness as Patriarch. That is why when local leaders step into your home you preside! Hence, you will find NO SPECIFIC laws or policies with regards to personal attire or personal management, BUT you will find lots of soft suggestions.

Page 5 Bearded Shaven Mormons

I will respond to your quoted comments in order.

I have learned that the Brethren say exactly what they mean. If it was their intention for all Priesthood holders to shave, and that's the revelation they received, they wouldn't hesitate 1 second to make it a requirement.

Even logic has to take a back seat to revelation.

As I said, the minute it gets revealed to them that all Priesthood holders need to be clean shaven then my opinons, in-grown hairs, or my feelings won't keep them from making it known.

You are reading into their words.

If you feel you are right and I am wrong, all you have to do is show me the counsel. When I see it I will conceed and immediately go shave.

I feel you are being judgmental toward me. I love the Lord, serve Him dilligently, love and raise my kids the best I can to know Him and love Him, and I help others as far as I am able.

Now, I came here to hold meaningful, worthwhile discussions about Gospel Principles. So, show me the counsel, or write it off to a difference of opinion between me and you.

Bearded Shaven Mormons

This subject obviously tingles your fibers for obvious reasons, otherwise you would not have dived into it. You need to emotionally detach yourself from this Thread and then FIRST read the messages in your Intro Thread, this place and it's input is a bit bigger than you think.

Mormons - Shaven or Bearded?

Justice, check page #3 within this thread for quotes. Elder Oaks have also spoke about facial hair before as well as other leaders in the past. It is not "new", most LDS member know (and you can google the issue if you like) that facial hair is discouraged for all male members regards to their position. It is an "unwritten policy" just like the white shirts.

Your own words:

Exactly! Can you mention a present Seventy, or Apostle or even the actual Prophet that wears a beard? Based on your own reasoning, then If ALL are clean shaved, then there might be something about being shaved.

Nobody is judging you at all, so please read from page 1 within this thread to get a better understanding to what we are talking about.

Edited: LDS_forever on 12th Sep, 2006 - 10:54pm

Mormons Shaven Bearded - Page 5

I have read page 3, but I read it again.

Thank you two very much for your concern for me. I try to take criticism well, even if I don't always manage to. I know that you are expressing concern for me by your comments, and for that I thank you. I will study this topic more, humble myself about this issue, and pray.

Thank you.

Mormons Shaven Bearded Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

I will add a couple of notes here.

You suffer from a condition known as Pseudofolliculitis Barbae. This is a completely valid medical condition. Even the US Air Force, one of the most nit-picky, rulebound organizations on earth, makes allowances for this condition, allowing "shaving waivers" for anyone who suffers with it. I have a very mild problem with it, and learned how to shave in such a way as to minimize it.

I am 100% positive that if you were called to be a temple worker, and you explained to your Temple President about this medical condition, you would NOT be asked to shave. He might ask you to keep it very closely trimmed (1/4 inch, for example). If you were called on a mission, and you explained to your Mission President about the situation, I can almost guarantee the same result.

Most people here know my biases in this, and other, areas. I detest church policies that are only in place to maintain a certain "image".