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Commune With The Saints - Page 7

Amonhi, joining them is not an option. Right now I am just not interested in doing anything that involves Church and members. I just go on Sundays to partake the sacrament and return home. This is the best way I can handle it for now.

Rather off topic, but... QUOTE How did you come to be there? I married a Trinidadian (not a "typical" one though). QUOTE You have been in this situation for more than 3 years now. Why are you stuck?Can you tell us about that? It is the only country where we can work legally. That's why we are here. Migrating is a far away dream for now, with the increasing inflation and food prices going up, it is an impossibility to try to save the money that will allow us to move to Canada for instance (the only choice really, the USA is impossible really). About when, it is not realistic at the present moment. Certain things are just not meant to be. You can check out the Trinidad and Tobago board to get a feeling of the country and also read our blogs.

I married a Trinidadian (not a "typical" one though).

It is the only country where we can work legally. That's why we are here. Migrating is a far away dream for now, with the increasing inflation and food prices going up, it is an impossibility to try to save the money that will allow us to move to Canada for instance (the only choice really, the USA is impossible really).

About when, it is not realistic at the present moment. Certain things are just not meant to be. You can check out the Trinidad and Tobago board to get a feeling of the country and also read our blogs.

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You have my understanding and deepest sympathies. From my experience you are getting more from your forum than any general church meetings anyway!

:-)

Commune With The Saints Studies Doctrine Mormon

Yes, this forum uplifts me spiritually which I think should be the purpose of Church attendance. The other day I was chatting with a friend of mine who is a Trinidadian and moved to Canada almost a year ago and I asked her what she likes about the Church in Canada and she said "I leave the meetings feeling uplifted and with a strong desire to improve and better myself". What a wonderful think I thought.

But here we still in the same old story, rediscovering the Book of Mormon every Sunday.

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Interestingly enough, I have always gotten more from my personal studies and seeking for questions than I have in church. Currently because on our experiences and beliefs, my wife and I feel somewhat out of place among the saints much like you do in Trinidad.

For us, our complaints where different. Stuff like why don't they teach the truth in the manuals, why aren't meetings directed by the spirit, Why are we so stuck on...

For a while I was angry with the church for not teaching things that are so simple now. Things that could have helped me to receive my blessings before serving a mission. I became upset listening to what was taught in church. I would teach boldly without much love because I was upset that no one knew the basics, like the spirit is the highest authority, We are all prophets(or should be), and other simple obvious things they don't teach making them "mysteries".

Calling and election made sure was actually supposed to be as Basic as baptism, and the day will come when people will say, tell us about how you received your calling and election, (Just like today we might be asked to share about how we gained our testimony). Even now, I realize that their are BIG problems with the church and all of it stems from the general members which become the leaders tomorrow. As the general members become less inspired, the leaders do to, and over generations we have many leaders who feel like one of the great ones if they learn the simplest of truths like what a passage of scripture means.

All this and you feel like you have to be guarded if you share a personal experience like having a vision, dream, visitation or other experience. In many cases you can't even share basic doctrine without being challenged. I mean for real who here doesn't hide their beliefs from the members of their ward or their leaders because they think they might be criticized or excommunicated? I do. Anyone else?

Even the topics in this mature board couldn't be discussed openly in church. Disagreeing with a prophet is like being an anti-Christ. Imagine if you will, sitting next to me in Gospel doctrine class and a quote was read by some prophet or other and I raised my hand and said, "I understand where he got that, but if you look at ... you'll see that ... it is not as as your quote says, it is actually ...." Can you imagine the gasps and hands that would fly up all to say that we shouldn't question or contradict the leaders of the church? (They contradict each other, I see no reason I can't contradict them as well.) Imagine being in a class taught by the bishop where he made a statement that you disagreed with and someone like me gracefully corrected him like you would any teacher or comment in the class. Anyone relating here? My point being, I don't feel much fellowship with the saints sometimes either. (However, I have learned that being more loving and focus on teaching truth rather than destroying errors helps both side feel more comfortable.)

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I wanted to reply to this section for a long time, but have become engulfed with work. Amonhi, I'm sure you can now appreciate why we kept saying that you need to visit the LDS Mature section or reserved certain Discussion for this section.

There was a time I used to be angry, especially because I watched the Church rise from my home with a few people to what it is today. I used to be super active, bending over backwards to meet Members' needs and going the extra 10 miles to make someone happy to the detriment of myself. However, I saw leaders make decisions that made me shudder, and I saw Members accept a lot of the world. A lot of this has to do with the culture here, it is in everything. Anyway, I was tired of seeing the classic "Evil made to look Good and Good made to look Evil". It is still prevalent today, but I've learned the hard way that no matter what you do the Church will move in the direction of the majority of souls who carry it. Now, I worry more on saving my family, especially one of my sons and do not really care for Church activities or association in the least save for the sacrament. At present I get the sarcastic "Welcome back" from the leaders although I have not gone anywhere, but I guess for the typical Mormon unless you are stuffing yourself at activities and walking around talking about people's business then you are not active.

Commune With The Saints

Yes, I can, You have done well to make this a safe haven for honest and open communications. I applaud you! I hope you understand that this web site has been and will be a great asset to the building up of the Kingdom of God for many people. Your inspired desire is part of the plan.

That is correct. Because of agency, God is bound by honor to protect the freedoms of the wicked and the righteous. We, the people are in this way the Gods of this world. If Satan can control us, then he takes the place of God over this world.

I hear you! My wife and I travel the country doing various missions or callings. Often times it requires us to visit a ward to share a message and to speak with someone specific. There is often a person in these wards that has studied a lot and speaks up and you hear the rumors or sarcastic snickering like, "here we go again" or "watch out, here comes a new revelation" when a they speak. Then they say something that is profound and way over the heads of the people snickering.

We someone might mention that we can become a God like our Fathers in Heaven and we hear a comment like, "I almost left the church when I heard that OBSCURE doctrine! And I realized that it isn't really taught in the church and it is someones idea." Shocking huh!?! From a relief Society Class.

Another class asked, "What makes mormons different in the way we raise children?" Given answers:
- We teach our children not to have sex outside marriage.
- We pray with our children.
- We have family time with our children.
- etc....

All things that every other church teaches. So my wife says, "We teach our children that they can speak to God and that he can talk back and that they can know anything they want for themselves by asking God directly."

And it was like she had just given a new revelation, "Oh, wow! Hey that's right! I never thought of that!" Were the comments. Basics...

Every ward is different, and there are problems all around the church do to "following the prophet" and becoming darkened in their minds. This has been a concern from the beginning. I understand that the problem in Trinidad is exactly the opposite they are not following the prophet. They are not getting the first step which is obedience as a servant. They may need a good fire and brimstone lesson that scared the Hell out of them making room for the heaven to enter. :-)

Commune With Saints - Page 7

I have said that many times to my wife. In fact the secular Christian pastors do this with their congregation with great results as far as I am concerned. Go in one of these secular churches and you see people excited to be there, they sing with spirit and participate as thought it were Sunday lunch. Walk into a local Branch here and you cannot tell the difference between Sacrament meeting and a funeral.

Spread the word, let others know there is a place you can share your view in a clear mature manner without being ridiculed or mocked by teeny boppers. Let them know there is a place that you CAN commune with the Saints.

Commune With Saints Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 7

All people are on the path of progression. Depending on where they are in that path you teach them what they need. It sounds like these people may need to start with the fear of God or the first Transition as expressed in my post Here.

There is another way, that is to take great effort and teach them how the rubber hits the road. Pointing out that they have created the society they live in. If they don't like it then they must and can change it. Pointing out the hell they already live in where they worry about their own lives and the lives of their families. They are always on their guard and can't trust anyone. But by banning together right now, they can begin to make a new community that protects each other... It all happens very well in my mind, but bringing heaven to earth requires a mighty leader with a vision that can be shared with the people. Where there is no vision, the people perish. These people are dying... they need a leader with a vision of the people becoming greater than they are, not weaker. A vision of the people uniting together in a great cause to take back their cities and teach the principles of the Gospel which make us free from the sins of others. Telling the people that they will PULL heaven down to Trinidad until those who are not willing to protect each other are cast out! By doing so, we become a light to not only our country but to the entire world! With a real leader it could happen very quickly. Rapid change. But when the leaders are saying, let's expect less and lower the bar, it becomes degrading and a slap in the face to the people.