Related Information to Homosexuality - Same Sex Marriage - Religious View

Homosexuality - Same Sex Marriage - Religious View - Page 7

This is starting to get in over my head, I just wished to state my opinion. I perused through all the posts, and when I have more time and when I am not half asleep I will read them all in full detail, but as for whoever asked me about knowing twins, well....I went to grade school with 4 sets of twins (2 identical) and these two live on my same street! I have been able to tell them apart since around 2nd grade. Now, this obviously depends upon the set of twins, but unless they are clones, they are not exact. If you want proof, closely examine every detail on their body (yea, this is a radical statement, but it is true) and I am sure you will find some differences. Look, as I said before, the body makes mistakes. The copying process of DNA is flawed! I stated everything about this in earlier posts. Unless you are trying to say that one DNA strand was formed in the single egg, and then they each were made off of 1/2 of a DNA strand, I do not understand what you are trying to say. I will try and find some scientific data online, but I will have to do so later, for I am very tired.

As for everyone that psoted a statement about religion, again, all I have to say is that "there is separation between church and state." Not all religions consider homosexuality a sin. So, if you were part of that religion and believed such, what argument would you have to oppose gay marriage? That is what I am asking.

And, as for my quote calling marriage a "sacrament"--it is a flaw in my essay. I am a high schooler, and I don't know about you, but most high schooler's now (including me) have a very bad habit of procrastination, where we do our homework the night before it is due. I did not have time to fix every error, unfortunately. I probablly should have removed the paragraph about an old man and young women paragraph, for that is also a sort of discrimination.

My main point is that this will always be an issue, and it will not end untill same-sex marriage is legalized. So why drag it out and make a big deal of it? And again, why do you care so much about others' lives? They will remain homosexual whether they can marry or not, so prohibiting them from marriage does nothing except make them feel discriminated against. What else does it show? You say it provides a bad environment for kids? Kids don't even know what homosexuality really is until Junior-High. Gay couples adopt children anyways, so them being married will do nothing to effect the raising of children by same-sex couples. All it will do is strengthen the couples bond, which would most likely result in a beneficiary way to the child. I am still searching for a good opposition to gay marriage, and maybe it has been posted and I have missed it (As I said, I have not read them all in detail), but so far I still hear the same thing over and over again--Marriage is religious...Marriage is a sacred institution...blah blah blah...Read the constitution.

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If that is your main point Straker, then why not legalize marijuana, public nudity, abortion, suicide, and anything else in this world that is an 'issue'? Just because something is an issue and always will be an issue, doesn't mean we should roll over and accept it and legalize it. You obviously don't want to hear anything about religion or morals, and refer to it as blah blah blah, but yet I haven't heard of a valid reason why we should even consider same sex marriage. Next time you are discussing the ways of the world with your priest, ask him his opinion of same sex marriage and use the argument you are using here with him. I happen to attend a Catholic church myself and I would say the concept of same sex marriage is a 'little' bit frowned upon.

Homosexuality - Same Sex Marriage - Religious View Beliefs Religious General

While I agree with most of what straker says, I don't think it fair though, to dismiss religious beliefs and morals out of hand. Whether you realize it or not, your morals play a role in your opinion on this. Your morals are not the same as everyone else, the are specific to you. My morals allow for gay marriage because personal freedom is first on my list of morals. Unfortunately, I don't have a problem with weed being legal either, so my morals are obviously much different also. What the argument comes down to is morals. If your morals are derived from your religious beliefs then you will most likely be against gay marriage as most religions are against it. If your morals are derived from somewhere else, then you will most likely think there is nothing wrong with it. If someone choses to allow their religious beliefs to determine their morals, I may disagree with their view, but have no problem with why they believe the way they do.

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Look, I understand that morals play an important issue in your descision, but religious beliefs legally cannot be part of a descision in government. I still don't know the legal reason for why gay marriage was banned in some states. If you know, can you please tell me? I may be done with this forum, because again, the only answer to my responce is the exact same thing as in most other responces in this forum. Look, Maleksander, you speak of the Catholic Church, but has it ever occured to you that not everyone is Catholic? Besides, there are many Catholics who do support gay marriage. And priests are not infallible. I'm not trying to look at this issue as a moral issue. I'm trying to look at it from the government's eyes, and draw a conclusion as to how gay marriage can be made illegal and still keep separation between church and state. And I'm drawing a big blank.
As for you comparing this to marijuana, suicide, etc. I don't really see many similarities between such. Does homosexuality kill? Please alert me if it does. We are not talking about life and death here. This is just about an issue which refrains American citizens, who supposedly have free will, who are being restricted in being happy because of religious beliefs when there is separation between church and state. Again I pose the question, "Can someone please give me a reason to ban gay marriage that does not have to do with religious beliefs?"
If all I get is some more stuff about morals, religion, priests say, etc. I'm not responding. I've said what I have to say. Why waste your time repeating myself?

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Straker, honestly I am sorry you feel this way, but if you are getting the same type of responses from multiple forums on this issue, then that may tell you something about the issue itself and how most people feel about it. You have to understand that this is a very strong topic of discussion for many people and you will hear things that you may not agree with. I have tried to keep an open mind when reading other people's opinions, and I would hope others do the same when reading mine.
As for the Catholic reference, I made this because this was the religious belief system you placed in your profile. I do realize that not everyone is Catholic, in fact, a lot of members on this forum are of the LDS belief. I thought it rather ironic that you listed Catholic as your belief system yet felt so strongly for same sex marriage.
You asked whether allowing gay marriage was a matter of life or death, and you're right, it isn't. But there are numerous laws out there banning a number of things that have nothing to do with life or death. My point was "Should we legalize those issues just because they don't kill someone?" Public nudity doesn't kill anyone, but it is illegal.
Speaking of public nudity, let's make an analogy between it and same sex marriage. Why is public nudity illegal? We've already established that it doesn't kill anyone, so there goes that argument. Banning public nudity does impose against those who are comfortable with it, but the majority are not as comfortable, which is a main reason why it hasn't been legalized. Most people think it is morally wrong to expose oneself in public. If you were to poll the public today, you would also find that the majority think same sex marriage is morally wrong and they are uncomfortable with it. If you think this is false then you are fooling yourself. If one day the majority of the public is for same sex marriage and states want to legalize it, then let them do so. I can't argue with a majority vote; that doesn't mean I will agree with it, but then I can see it being set as law. This is the beauty of the freedoms we have here in the US that we allow majority public opinion to set our laws. That would be the main reason I would say to ban same sex marriage today, here in the US. Does that answer your question?

Homosexuality - Same Sex Marriage - Religious View

Please Note:

Not to side track everyone's thoughts, but I feel I must point out that we are on the Religions Board and therefore the topic is considered from a religious perspective. If you are interested in talking about his based on law, rights and government then take it to the Activism Board where there are threads discussing the aspect of if it is even right for the government to be involved in legalizing marriage let alone same gender marriages.

Homosexuality - Sex Marriage Religious View - Page 7

Are you saying you have nothing more to add to this thread? Or, are you saying you will quit the forum altogether because others don't agree with your view? Since this is supposed to be a discussion, and since we are all entitled to our own opinions, I hope it isn't that you plan to leave the forum in general just because others don't agree with you.

There may not be any non-religious reason. Again, though, marriage is a religious institutions so you can't really remove it from the discussion. Another reason is simply many consider it immoral behavior. That doesn't mean necessarily from a religious view, simple that some consider this behavior wrong, or deviant. If that is the case, such behavior shouldn't be sanctioned by the government.

You might want to do that yourself. As a matter of fact, the entire separation of Church and State from the constitution was not intended to protect non-believers from religion, but rather to protect believers from the government. The Constitution says that congress cannot force a state religion on people, but it really doesn't say that religious morals can't be considered when enacting laws.

I must disagree with this statement. If the majority wants to enact a law that discriminates for no reason other than race, or sexual orientation, for example, it cannot be allowed. So, in fact, it isn't really that the majority rules in a democracy, and it shouldn't be, in my opinion. I simply think the laws banning homosexual marriage may be for reasons other than just discrimination.

Homosexuality - Sex Marriage Religious View General Religious Beliefs - Page 7

Straker, I hope that you do not end up leaving. Like the others have said, we only have differing opinions, that does not mean that do not want to hear yours. In responding, at least for myself, your comments make me think about things that I haven't considered before, and it helps me to clarify what exactly I do believe in, so I thank you for that. I'm sorry that reading other's opinions doesn't do the same for you.

I know how I feel about this issue, and my feelings include my spiritual beliefs as well as logic. The issue of what part the government should play is still a bit cloudy for me, even though I do have a stance on that. I do not want to in any way discriminate against someone because of their sexual orientation. However, I really liked malexander's analogy to nudity in public. Don't the laws against nudity in public discriminate, too? What if those people also feel discriminated against? That it's just not fair? Why should they have to be restricted by the government? Plenty of people feel discriminated every day by the government, but that doesn't mean that it is wise or judicially expedient to change those laws. Unfortunately, this is the society we live in and those who are offended by the laws and the way government does things only have a few things they can do that I thought of at the moment. They can become politically active; they can write letters, speak out in public, organize and participate in demonstrations, lobby for new legislation, assemble petitions, and any other way of actively pursuing change; they can choose to try and accept the law and abide by it; and there are those who choose to become bitter and do all sorts of things involving the media and other negative choices to promote their beliefs. I have felt discriminated against by certain laws, but I came to grips with it and moved on. I know this might be easier said than done.

I disagree with this statement. First, how can you tell whether a law is discriminatory or one that prevents certain groups of people from doing what they want? Are the laws against nudity in public discriminating against those people? If gay marriage were banned, would that mean that gays were being discriminated against, or restricted in the behavior they are allowed do? An argument against anyone saying that, "Well, this is done in their private life," would be that there are plenty of laws that are against other areas of our personal lives also. What about laws against sodomy between a couple who loves each other? I also have a problem with the thought that the majority doesn't necessarily rule. If a minority rules, then what do you say to the majority? I know first hand that just because the majority rules doesn't mean that the ruling is just or correct. As I stated above, though the road is difficult, there are ways for someone who had a 'minority' opinion to try to bring about change. We as Americans govern by the majority ruling. We elect our president, our senators, our congressman, our governors, and almost all who hold a public office. That to me is what a democracy is; majority rules, even if it is wrong or unpopular.