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The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? - Page 5

[quote].  I disagreeertion again is that when the Prophet says something, it is the MINIMUM, but most of us treat it as the MAXIMUM that we should be doing. [/quote]

I understand what you mean and maybe the title of the thread itself may be was confusing because actually what I wanted to talk about in this thread was not whether when the Prophet speaks we should not research more, study and look for our own answers...the idea of the thread is whether when he speaks and give a new revelation whether is enough what he said in the sense of 'is coming from the Lord himself'. That's the purpose of the whole thread. Of course we need to look for more answers and in order to do that we need to make more research but I believe that if the Prophets gives today a new revelation, I know it's coming from the Lord himself, I don't have to go and pray and ask Him whether what the Prophet said is revelation from Him or not. I know it is, I may have to pray like I said before for the strenght and understanding to deal with the new revelation but I will not put in doubt the words of the Prophet by asking God whether what he said is true or not.

Enough That So Prophet Mormon The

[quote]...the idea of the thread is whether when he speaks and give a new revelation whether is enough what he said in the sense of 'is coming from the Lord himself'.[/quote]

I have been thinking about this for several days.  Here is one quote on the subject, and I will find more.

[quote]Journal of Discourses, Vol.9, p.151, Brigham Young, January 12, 1862

"...What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually..."[/quote]

I have read many other, similar messages from the Prophets.  The message being, it is our responsibility to check for ourselves.  Otherwise, we can be led astray.

NightHawk

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? Studies Doctrine Mormon

[quote]The message being, it is our responsibility to check for ourselves.  Otherwise, we can be led astray.[/quote]

I don't see anything wrong with someone asking God about it, but let's clarify that President Hinckley the living Prophet, Seer and Revelator had say so many times that our leaders in the Church cannot lead us astray and if they try to the Lord himself will remove them from their position. More clear than that cannot be explained.

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[quote]but let's clarify that President Hinckley the living Prophet, Seer and Revelator had say so many times that our leaders in the Church cannot lead us astray[/quote]

And this is the one point that I have a real problem with.

First of all, I want to know where is the "thus saith the Lord" reference to this doctrine?  I have yet to see any type of statement that confirms that this is actually a God-revealed truth, rather than an opinion.

Second, there are a host of scriptures and statements by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Heber C. Kimball, and other Apostles in opposition to this doctrine.

I am not saying it isn't true, just that I have yet to see such a statement supported scripturally or through unambiguous prophetic statements.

[quote]9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him; (Ezekiel 14:9-10)[/quote]

[quote]38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.

39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known. (D&C 64:38-39)[quote]

There are several others, including the entire 28th chapter of Isaiah.

I am trying to bring this back to the original topic of this thread.  I do not advocate disregarding what the Prophet has said.  I just object to the apparent doctrine of infallibility that I see.

NightHawk

Enough That So Prophet Mormon The

[quote] First of all, I want to know where is the "thus saith the Lord" reference to this doctrine?  I have yet to see any type of statement that confirms that this is actually a God-revealed truth, rather than an opinion. [/quote]

There is no need for the 'this saith the Lord' because when a Prophet speaks in General Conference [is]a  revelation, a doctrine from God.

[quote]Second, there are a host of scriptures and statements by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Heber C. Kimball, and other Apostles in opposition to this doctrine. [/quote]

Remember that the Revelations we get from the Lord nowdays come from the Living Prophet. I'm not saying that what Brigham Young or Joseph Smith said was wrong, what I'm saying is that we should focus on what our living Prophet says now. Plus this debate of whether is revelation of God or opinion of a man is endless I believe that when a Prophet speaks in General Conference without any doubt, it is through revelation of God.

[quote]I just object to the apparent doctrine of infallibility that I see. [/quote]

I understand your point, a very valid one too. The Prophet is not God himself, the Prophet is a man who commits mistakes, sins and who is trying to improve his life like we all do here on Earth. The point here is if he says something that goes against God's will he will remove him from that position...he will....there is not doctrine of  infallibility here because the fact that he says that if a Prophet tries to lead Zion astray God will take him out, then it's obvious that there will be many Prophets or so called ones, who will try to lead the people astray.
What I'm saying is the fact that President Hinckley still holding the calling of Prophet, Seer and Revelator and God has not moved him from that position, we believe then that what he says is what God wants us to do.

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?

My friend Nighthawk, this subject was going on with vigor between us when the crash happened, I posted a message for you, did you manage to see it? If so what did you think, if not I will try and recall and post it again in relation to this thread.

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough - Page 5

I think I did see it, and I think I responded to it, just minutes before the crash.

It appears that we will just have to disagree.  While I fully sustain President Hinckley in his calling, I just do not see any indication, from any source, that the Lord has put forth the idea that we should follow the Prophet without checking with the Lord first.

I see a lot of people putting forth their opinions.  I hear a lot of people saying that if we follow the prophet, we will never be led astray.  But I don't see any scriptural support for this idea, nor do I see any prophetic counsel as support.

In fact, all the statements that I have read by more current GAs have appeared to me to be opinion, not prophetic direction.

Finally, I will say that the more I study and learn about the Last Days, recognizing how sinful and fallen I am, the more convinced I become that following the prophet without seeking and getting personal revelation, both to confirm the Prophet's words and to get our own, is a sure way into the Terrestial Kingdom - not the Celestial.

NightHawk

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

[quote]I think I did see it, and I think I responded to it, just minutes before the crash. [/quote]
Must have been an omen :laugh:

[quote]While I fully sustain President Hinckley in his calling, I just do not see any indication, from any source, that the Lord has put forth the idea that we should follow the Prophet without checking with the Lord first. [/quote]
BUT WHO IS SAYING OTHERWISE!!!! No one here is saying that you should not seek the Lord's direction and confirmation. What is the issue?

As for your last paragraph, not sure if I understand it, but I am sure if you said that in Church you would be called in for an interview. (Thank goodness for forums like these eh?)