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The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? - Page 10

Wow, I definately disagree with that statement. It suggests that we earn our exaltation by achieving certain specific takss in life, and I don't think that is true. Yes, we must all do certain things, like be baptized, take out our endowments, but other than that, there is not any checklist that is the only way for all of us to acheive exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom.

After we do all that we can the Savior makes up the rest. That "all we can" is different for every one. Some people may never be more than level 4, but it could be that they are honestly doing their best. Someone else may acheive level 6, but because of from where they started and what they were given in life, they should have been able to acheive level 7. I believe their reward will be less than the person who only attained level 4, but honestly did all they could given their unique set of circumstances.

This seems to be way off topic, so maybe we should start another thread about this specific topic, if people want to continue this discussion.

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Now we are going into qualifying aspects... Of course you can disagree, but you must take into consideration this:

1. We cannot judge
2. We will be surprised who makes it
3. We do have the spirit world to make amends although not as easy
4. The Church does provide the minimum requirements or 'C', you get an 'A' when you live it.

Also I feel i must have said something that may have been worded wrong, although I fail to see how... my example of 'A,B.C' was to show that there are requirements to make it back to Heavenly Father, but yes, there are possibilities to exceed those requirements. I do not know why you doubt that.

I think this is going far from topic, this has nothing to do now with if the Prophet's words are enough... I have started a new thread. If you wish to continue this then I can move these last threads there:
https://www.bordeglobal.com/foruminv/index.php?showtopic=8339

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? Studies Doctrine Mormon

If given the choice between scripture and a living prophet with the keys, you stay with the prophet. In other words, "You can have the scriptures or you can have the prophet with the priesthood keys. Which do you choose?" The choice is obvious: the keys. With the keys, you can reveal all that is needed for your salvation. This is what Brigham was saying.

But we, as Latter-day Saints, are never given such a choice. We are given the scriptures AND the prophets. Because of this, the prophets are bound by the canonized scriptures. They cannot go beyond those limits. They can receive new revelations, but the revelations must be scriptural and cannot contradict the written word already received. Additionally, the new revelation is not binding upon the people unless the people vote to accept it (the law of common consent.) The Lord set it up this ordered way so that He could reign in His prophets and also give His people a means whereby they could discern all deception. The written word is our measuring stick to try all things. The scripture "try the spirits" is talking about discovering false prophets or false statements by prophets. To err is human and the prophets are humans and make mistakes, like all of us, therefore, there needed to be a way that the people of the Lord could know truth from error when the human prophet was speaking. That way is clear: the scriptures and the Holy Ghost. Not the scriptures OR the Holy Ghost, mind you! (Which is what some people seem to think.) The reason for this is clear: we, also, are human and are prone to err even in what we think we are receiving from the Spirit. So, the scriptures will measure us, too.

In summary: Everyone, prophet and people alike, must have their feet firmly sunk into scriptural soil. In this way the devil will have no deceptive power over us.

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Nope, not your fault. I was thinking more about it last night, and realized that I had misunderstood what you wrote, in relation to some other things I am reading and pondering.

I will take further discussion elsewhere.

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President Benson in his talk called "Fourteen Fundamentals of following the Prophets" said something that I need some more clarification and thoughts:

"Sixth: The prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture.

Sometimes there are those who argue about words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel but that we are not obliged to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet, "Thou shalt give heed unto [b]all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you." (D&C 21:4.)

And speaking of taking counsel from the prophet, in D&C 108:1, the Lord states:

"Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Lyman: Your sins are forgiven you, because you have obeyed my voice in coming up hither this morning to receive counsel of him whom I have appointed."

Said Brigham Young, "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture." (Journal of Discourses, 13:95.)

https://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Mag...e%20prophet.htm


So was he saying that every word that comes out from the Prophet is to be taking as Scripture?. Is this what the Church believes nowdays?. I would like to read some thoughts about this. Thanks.

Edited: LDS_forever on 12th Nov, 2004 - 2:18pm

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?

I would also like more clarification on this. It looks to me like this creates a huge conflict, in several different doctrines.

1. Brigham Young clearly taught that no man or woman can enter the Celestial Kingdom without being involved in plural marriage. The only exception that he really offered was the case where they were physically stopped from doing so. For example, when a woman is in the situation where no man has asked her to marry, or the man who has done so is obviously a bad choice.

Yet we have been taught clearly by several prophets that any man or woman WHO DOES enter into plural marriage is ineligible for the Celestial Kingdom. One or the other of these men taught false doctrine.

2. Brigham Young taught, again very clearly, that Adam is our God, the Father. Spencer W. Kimball taught that this was a false doctrine. If both of them were speaking scripture, there is a conflict here that I don't see any way to reconcile.

I am not making any judgements here. Just pointing out some problems that immediately come to my mind.

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough - Page 10

I have a few thoughts regarding this subject. First, since we are a living Church, certain doctrines can change over time such as the need to practice plural marriage. What was true in Brigham's day as a requirement from the Lord is not necessarily true of our day. This is clearly the case with blood sacrifice. It was necessary before the atonement, but is no longer necessary.

Another thought is that if someone says something before they become prophet it doesn't make it scripture later when they do become prophet.

Also, I think what is being referred to as scripture in the example by LDS is when a prophet gives us guidance or instruction. So, if the prophet says "I love green beans. I think everyone should love them too. How can you not love green beans?" I doubt that is scripture. However, if the prophet in a talk at conference or some fireside says you should avoid certain movies or not do certain activities on Sunday, that is most likely scripture.

I think there is no great mystery to Brigham's statement about Adam/God theory either. I think it has been well explained by others in the past what it is Brigham was trying to say.

Edited: tenaheff on 13th Nov, 2004 - 3:28pm

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 10

"It has always been hard to recognize in fallible human beings the authorized servants of God. Paul must have seemed an ordinary man to many. Joseph Smith's cheerful disposition was seen by some as not fitting their expectations for a prophet of God.

"Satan will always work on the Saints of God to undermine their faith in priesthood keys. One way he does it is to point out the humanity of those who hold them. He can in that way weaken our testimony and so cut us loose from the line of keys by which the Lord ties us to Him."
-- Elder Henry B. Eyring, "Faith and Keys," Ensign, Nov. 2004, 28.