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The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? - Page 2

Nighthawk, I see the deeper sense of what you are saying, however that is a fine line you walk especially to those who have bot yet reached that 'level' of thought, because the Spirit of the Lord is also interrpreted differently by so many people. I am aware that the Lord wishes that all His people were prophets, but we are so far from that, therefore we need specific guidance. Not necessarily perfect leadership, but at least channeled. For instance, Moses was far from perfect and did many things that the Lord was not well pleased in, yet he was the chosen mouth piece, and those who felt otherwise was burned, stoned, etc. I am sure you have heard like I have someone say, 'The Spirit told me to do this or that...' and you know it could not have been because the Lord already gave specific direction on the principle. Yet the person is convinced that is what they have been told. I do not walk blindly, I try to understand everything that we are taught and given by the leadership of the Church, I always ask '...for what purpose of us is this?' This is similar to the thread about the Journal of Discourses, but I do say I listen to the Prophet's voice, but it is not the Prophet that I believe in, it is the Hand of the Lord directing the Church through the Prophet. I think here is the mistake most make, they 'worship' the man rather than the Power behind the man.

Enough That So Prophet Mormon The

[quote]i been a memeber almost a year i never heard the phophet say any thing that can lead us away from the churnch. please forgive my spelling i'm very bad at it.[/quote]

I certainly don't mean to imply that the Prophet IS leading anyone astray.  I deeply apologize if you read that in my post.

My point is entirely that we must become independant of ALL other people in our spirituality.  We must reach the point where we rely on the Spirit, so that we CANNOT be lead astray.

[quote]Nighthawk, I see the deeper sense of what you are saying, however that is a fine line you walk especially to those who have bot yet reached that 'level' of thought....[/quote]

It is a fine line.  But I don't really walk it.  I see it as the ideal.  I also see it as being an absolute requirement to survive the Last Days.

I will give a scenario here.  It is skirting the edges of this topic, but really does have to do with it.

Imagine....

October conference comes around.  During a session of conference, a massive earthquake hits the Wasatch front, causing tremendous damage.  All of the First Presidency, and most of the Apostles are in the Conference Center and the Tabernacle, and are killed when these two buildings collapse.  The leaders who aren't in SLC rush back as soon as possible to help restore order.

A couple of days after the rest of the Apostles get back, another earthquake hits, worse than the first.  Now, there is only one Apostle left alive.

Most of the Seventy are also dead.

Various people claim leadership of the Church.  Some follow one, some another.  How do you know which one to follow?

End of scenario.

Actually, I could go on a lot further with the scenario, but that would require a new thread.  The point is, there is going to be a time, when we won't be able to follow the prophet, or we will be required to receive revelation from the Lord on who the authorized leader is.

Isaiah talks about a 'Davidic King' who will rule in righteousness in the Last Days (who is not Jesus Christ).  The D&C talks about 'one mighty and strong,' as does Isaiah.  Right now, there are people who claim to be this man.  How will we recognize him?

If we are so tied up with ONLY 'following the Prophet' then we will not be ready to know who the Lord has authorized in the Last Days.  In fact, we might not (probably won't) be able to recognize the Lord, but will be drawn away into the strong delusions, to follow a false prophet or a false Christ.

NightHawk

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? Studies Doctrine Mormon

[quote] I certainly don't mean to imply that the Prophet IS leading anyone astray.[/quote]
That is good to hear :laugh:

[quote] My point is entirely that we must become independant of ALL other people in our spirituality.  We must reach the point where we rely on the Spirit, so that we CANNOT be lead astray.[/quote]
yes, I gathered that is what you are saying, I have something similar somwhere on a recent thread.

[quote]Now, there is only one Apostle left alive.[/quote]
The highest authority presides and then we take it from there... now if there were no Apostles then that would be worrisome

[quote] Isaiah talks about a 'Davidic King' who will rule in righteousness in the Last Days (who is not Jesus Christ).  The D&C talks about 'one mighty and strong,' as does Isaiah.  Right now, there are people who claim to be this man.  How will we recognize him?[/quote]
To whom do you believe this is?

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[quote]The highest authority presides and then we take it from there... now if there were no Apostles then that would be worrisome[/quote]

Actually, I think the D&C says that the Quorum of the Twelve, and the Quorum of the Seventy are the authorities when the First Presidency is disolved.

Again, a reason to make sure that I am in a condition to recieve that revelation for myself as to who is the authorized leader in that situation.

[quote]To whom do you believe this is? (Speaking of the Davidic King)[/quote]

That is one of the most difficult questions to answer, right up there with "who will be the 'two prophets' in Jerusalem.

There is a good case to think that John, the Beloved will fill this position.  He is still mortal, although changed.  He has a Terrestial body, not Celestial.  He is the senior Apostle, by any measure.

Some people think that it will be Joseph Smith, resurrected.  After all, he is the head of this dispensation.  Personally, I doubt that it will be him, as if he is resurrected, I am sure that he will be a Celestial being.

I tend to go with John.  But that is only my opinion.

However, I have received a strong testimony of the existence of the Davidic King.  Now it is up to me to learn who he is.

NightHawk

Enough That So Prophet Mormon The

Interesting points, I have not given much study to it, but what is it to say that this 'man' does not already exist 'commonly' among us? However, because this thread is straying, please do start a new thread about it and we can continue from there.

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?

[quote]There is no indication in scripture that the Lord will stop the leaders of the Church from leading people astray.  [/quote]

True, but our Prophet Gordon B Hinckley have say so ...now...you don't believe it because he's also a man? Please, explain me more so I can know where do you stand for regards to the living Prophet's words.

[quote]Finally, we know that in the very last days, the Church will go through a cleansing, as many, possibly most, of the members will apostatize.  The cleansing will begin within the Church, then will go out throughout the world.  If everyone in the church is "following the Prophet" and the Prophet cannot lead us astray, how could this happen? [/quote]

Very simple. If the members of the Church, even the chosen ones, will apostatize like we know it will happen in the last days is obvious they will not follow the Prophets's words...they may be caught in some other false Christs coming or other religious leaders who they may think is the Christ.

[quote]If we are so tied up with ONLY 'following the Prophet' then we will not be ready to know who the Lord has authorized in the Last Days.  In fact, we might not (probably won't) be able to recognize the Lord, but will be drawn away into the strong delusions, to follow a false prophet or a false Christ. [/quote]

But how we can be so 'tied up' following the Prophet when he's the source of revelation from God to His Church?

[quote]Isaiah talks about a 'Davidic King' who will rule in righteousness in the Last Days (who is not Jesus Christ).  The D&C talks about 'one mighty and strong,' as does Isaiah.  Right now, there are people who claim to be this man.  How will we recognize him? [/quote]

This reminds me to something a guy used to talk about, he was not LDS but he mentioned a lot about something on the dead sea scrolls...'The Teacher of Righteousness' is this Davidic King you're talking about the same thing?.

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough - Page 2

[quote]True, but our Prophet Gordon B Hinckley have say so ...now...you don't believe it because he's also a man? Please, explain me more so I can know where do you stand for regards to the living Prophet's words.[/quote]

As you may have noticed, I don't fully subscribe to the common idea of 'infallibility' of the Prophet.  I don't believe the statement that the Prophet cannot lead the church astray.  This is opposite to the history of God's dealings with mankind.

We are urged to pray, and get our own witnesses of the Prophet's words.  The commonly asserted statements of absolute submission to the Prophet's words nullify this whole idea.

Again, I don't say, or believe, that President Hinckley is leading anyone astray.  I just think we all need to be independant.  If we receive a witness from the Spirit that we are to follow - then follow.  But I don't assume that idea.

[quote]Very simple. If the members of the Church, even the chosen ones, will apostatize like we know it will happen in the last days is obvious they will not follow the Prophets's words...they may be caught in some other false Christs coming or other religious leaders who they may think is the Christ.[/quote]

Go back to my scenario.  The day may come where there ISN'T a Prophet readily available.  There may come a day where you won't have time to find out what the Prophet has to say.

I will start a topic about the Last Days, the exodus, and the Davidic King, here soon.

NightHawk

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

[quote]As you may have noticed, I don't fully subscribe to the common idea of 'infallibility' of the Prophet.  I don't believe the statement that the Prophet cannot lead the church astray..  This is opposite to the history of God's dealings with mankind. [/quote]

Oh I see so if you have a Temple Recommend interview and they ask you about whether you sustain the Prophet as a seer and revelator and their general authorities and stuff what would be your answer?. Because this is a very interesting situation...I wonder how many people in the Church feels like that and when that question is being asked they honesty answer they do sustain the Prophets but they have some issues to deal with still and because the answers are basically yes or no then sometimes there is not really opportunity to express themselves although I think has a lot to do with the discernment that the Bishop should have. But let me ask you something, is this something you would feel comfortable talking to your Bishop about?.

[quote]Again, I don't say, or believe, that President Hinckley is leading anyone astray.  I just think we all need to be independant.  If we receive a witness from the Spirit that we are to follow - then follow.  But I don't assume that idea. [/quote]

Well, but that's my point. For instance if the Prophet gaves a revelation right now I will not pray to ask God whether it is true or not but I will pray for the strengh and understanding to put in practise that revelation. If I understand well, you would be praying to know whether that's what God wants you to do or not, right?.

[quote]Go back to my scenario.  The day may come where there ISN'T a Prophet readily available.  There may come a day where you won't have time to find out what the Prophet has to say.[/quote]

Then I will pray that God helps me to find who to follow but definetly if there is a living Prophet I will listen to what he has to say. Now, I don't want to sound like I follow the Prophet blindely because I believe in all things must be study, understanding, faith and action involved. There are lots of revelations of the Prophets of old and modern times that I still not understand and I bet if I was living at the time of the revelation I would have a hard time to deal with it. I supposed it is easier now where there are not new or controversial revelations taking place but as you say, there will be a time where we will have to stand for what we believe, independetly of the Prophet or other leaders. We cannot live in a borrow light, we must have our own.

[quote] will start a topic about the Last Days, the exodus, and the Davidic King, here soon. [/quote]

I look forward to that one! ;D