Is God's love conditional or unconditional?

Is God' S Love Conditional Unconditional - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 26th Oct, 2003 - 9:01pm

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23rd Oct, 2003 - 3:35pm / Post ID: #

Is God's love conditional or unconditional?

I was thinking about this today and I thought I would post it to see what you think... Is God's love conditional or unconditional? why?.



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23rd Oct, 2003 - 3:45pm / Post ID: #

unconditional conditional love Gods Is

There probably is scripture someplace to give a definitive answer, but I will leave that to someone else. wink.gif

I think his love is unconditional, but that is not the same as his approval.

Here is my reasoning.  He is our Heavenly Father.  

The love a parent has for a child is unconditional, at least from good parents, and I believe He is the best parent (perfect, in fact).  I will always love my son, but I may not always like what he does.  I could even dislike him as a person, but this wouldn't change that I loved him and cared about his well being.  

Heavenly Father's love for us is a perfect love, and, therefore, in my opinion, it must be unconditional.



Post Date: 23rd Oct, 2003 - 11:27pm / Post ID: #

Is God's love conditional or unconditional?
A Friend

Is God's love conditional or unconditional? Studies Doctrine Mormon

I had this discussion with my youngest son, a returned and now married missionary.  He says that God's love is conditional upon our obedience. He sighted an Esign article from earlier this year.  I, however, strongly disagree.  I believe in and feel my Heavenly Father's unconditional love.  He is the perfect father.  I believe he loves us and that the first why; of why we are here.  He wouldn't have created this beautiful world for us and tell us that "man is that he might have joy" if  there wasn't love involved.  I look around me and I see and feel strong evidence of His love for all mankind.   I am certain that His approval is conditional upon our obedience.  Approval never was love.

24th Oct, 2003 - 1:39pm / Post ID: #

unconditional conditional love Gods Is

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He sighted an Esign article from earlier this year.  I, however, strongly disagree.  I believe in and feel my Heavenly Father's unconditional love.


I knew somebody was going to mention the article so that's why I put the thread wink.gif
I read the article in the Ensign February 2003...here is a bit on what it's said (Elder Russell Nelson, from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles)...

"While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional.The word does not appear in the scriptures. On the other hand, many verses affirm that the higher levels of love the Father and the Son feel for each of us-and certain divine blessings stemming from that love-are conditional....


Understanding that divine love and blessings are not truly "unconditional" can defend us against common fallacies such as these: "Since God's love is unconditional, He will love me regardless "¦"; or "Since "God is love," 35 He will love me unconditionally, regardless "¦"
These arguments are used by anti-Christs to woo people with deception. Nehor, for example, promoted himself by teaching falsehoods: He 'testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, "¦ for the Lord had created all men, "¦ and, in the end, all men should have eternal life." 36 Sadly, some of the people believed Nehor's fallacious and unconditional concepts.
In contrast to Nehor's teachings, divine love warns us that "wickedness never was happiness." 37 Jesus explains, "Come unto me and be ye saved; "¦ except ye shall keep my commandments, "¦ ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."


https://www.byui.edu/Ricks/employee/ALLREDP...ove%20(RMN).htm

(copy and paste link)

Please people, read this article and let me know your thoughts...



24th Oct, 2003 - 2:13pm / Post ID: #

unconditional conditional love Gods Is

LDS, I read the article and I think Elder Nelson himself is confusing the word Love and the word Accept.  He may be doing so intentionally though to address the term the way others do when they say "it doesn't matter what I do God will still love me."  He worries that people will think it is o.k. to sin because God will still love them.  Well I think he will still love them, but he will not accept them into his kingdom unless they have made an honest attempt to repent and live righteously.

A quote from the article where Elder Nelson asserts the meaning is that  Heavenly Father's love is conditional:

QUOTE
"If ye keep my commandments, [then] ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."


The definition for abide though is key to understanding this scripture.  (At least in my opinion)  

I went to dictionary.com for definitions of abide.  There were several.  You can look yourself.  Basically, they were such as:  
        to be sure or firm; endure
        withstand
        wait patiently for
        tolerate
        dwell

I think then that the above scripture could mean that if we keep his commandments we can dwell in his love or be sure and firm in it.

To me that doesn't mean that I don't have his love if I don't keep his commandments, but if I want to always feel his love for me I should keep the commandments.

I think Elder Nelson really was trying to address people who also confuse love with acceptance and so it would make sense to use the same word as they do, but if we go further in his talk we see where even he seems to suggest Heavenly Father loves us unconditionally even if he (Elder Nelson) won't use that term:
QUOTE
Does this mean the Lord does not love the sinner? Of course not. Divine love is infinite and universal. The Savior loves both saints and sinners.


He speaks of the Savior loving both saints and sinners and I believe the Savior loves the way the Father taught him to love.

I think it really depends on what we are referring to when we use the word love because even that has many different meanings.



24th Oct, 2003 - 4:56pm / Post ID: #

Is God's love conditional or unconditional?

QUOTE
LDS, I read the article and I think Elder Nelson himself is confusing the word Love and the word Accept.  He may be doing so intentionally though to address the term the way others do when they say "it doesn't matter what I do God will still love me."  He worries that people will think it is o.k. to sin because God will still love them.  Well I think he will still love them, but he will not accept them into his kingdom unless they have made an honest attempt to repent and live righteously.


Yes, I totally agree with you although I don't think he's confusing the words (he is just trying to make a strong case about the same thing you was saying about people sinning and thinking oh God loves me regardles) but personally would not be my choice of words...it does sounds confusing.



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Post Date: 26th Oct, 2003 - 2:58am / Post ID: #

Is God's love conditional or unconditional?
A Friend

Is God's love conditional unconditional

QUOTE


Yes, I totally agree with you although I don't think he's confusing the words (he is just trying to make a strong case about the same thing you was saying about people sinning and thinking oh God loves me regardles) but personally would not be my choice of words...it does sounds confusing.


This was my understanding of what Elder Nelson was meaning when he wrote that Ensign article.  I think he was basing it on the scripture in the Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 28:7-8

"Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.

And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God - he will justify in commiting a little sin; yea, lie a little, take advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God. "
(bold/italics added)
Right here Nephi is warning us about the dangers of assuming that God's love is so unconditional that he's going to save us no matter what.  We cannot be saved in our sins.  That is why we have the atonement and repentance, and I think this is the point that Elder Nelson was trying to make.

I do agree he could have done it a little better and with a little clearer language.  I think by saying that God's love is conditional he is scaring off a large group of people who don't have the background knowledge to understand what he's really saying.  I like the point of saying that God's acceptance is conditional, rather than saying that his love is conditional.

26th Oct, 2003 - 9:01pm / Post ID: #

Is God's love conditional unconditional Mormon Doctrine Studies

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I do agree he could have done it a little better and with a little clearer language.

I think this is why we all need to have a good ground in the scriptures and doctrine so that when we hear such talks we can have the 'sense' of what is being said. I call it, 'knowing the lingo'. Of course, prayer and the Spirit are surpreme to knowing anything about the Gospel.



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