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QUOTE What a beautiful poem. It sounds like - Page 4 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 28th Nov, 2003 - 6:05pm
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Association of Righteousness with Color - Page 4
Tena check this web sites:
https://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,410015091,00.html
https://www.watchman.org/lds/elijahabel.htm
https://www.blacklds.org/priesthood.html (you can check also blacklds.org for more info about blacks in the Church)
Read them all and tell me your thoughts 
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Color Righteousness Association
LDS, I went to two of the links and have some thoughts. I don't wish to go to the watchman.org site.
So, I see that blacks did, in fact, have the priesthood. On the bottom site you listed, I read a very good article by Marvin Perkins, Director of African American Relations for the Southern California Public Affairs Council of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Did you read this? The link to it directy is https://www.blacklds.org/Perkins.html. I think he does an excellent job of explaining without attempting to justify. A few interesting quotes for the benefit of those who will read this post, but not go to the article mentioned.
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| So I tell my friends, if you want to help people to get baptized, learn about Blacks and the Priesthood. Because most of the Church members don't know anything about it, and so you'll be the one getting the calls from the missionaries. |
This is why forums like this are a good thing, when we take time to include research in our discussions.
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| Jesus Christ did restore His Gospel to the earth in 1830, through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Since this was all new to the young Prophet, Joseph received numerous visitations and revelations regarding implementation and administration of the ordinances of Christ's Church. At this time, and at least up until eleven years later, Blacks were holding the Priesthood. Elijah Abel, a black man, was ordained to the Priesthood by the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1836, and ordained a Seventy by Zebedee Coltrin on April 4, 1841. He was washed and anointed in the Kirtland Temple, and served three missions for the Church. Walker Lewis was another black man of record ordained to the Priesthood. |
Why did we stop allowing blacks to hold the priesthood?
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| But somewhere a restriction began. We don't know when. We don't know why. There is no known revelation instructing the withholding to begin. President Gordon B. Hinckley has stated that we don't know why, and all are alike unto God. We also find this quote in the teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, page 490"¦ |
The final quote I want to post is regarding the issue of fence sitters as mentioned in previous posts or even the notion that whites may have been more valient in the pre-existance. Brother Perkins tells us in no uncertain terms and backs it up with scriptural references that neither of these explanations is valid.
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| 3 Nephi 13:24. No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon. And Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, "There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan." Many have been directed to the scripture passage in Abraham 3 to try to justify this teaching of fence sitting. These statements make reference to the varying degrees of "loyalty" and tie it into this scripture to support that after Lucifer became angry at his plan being rejected and rebelled, that there were "fence sitters," choosing the Lord, but not quite sure with their decision. Lot's wife comes to my mind. However, if you look closely at the scripture, you'll see something that I think will cause one to think this through a little more....Notice that the discussion regarding varying degrees of valiancy or greatness as it is put, actually comes before the plan was laid out and presented, and before the rejection of the plan and rebellion by Satan, instead of after, as the tradition would have us believe. |
He is specifically referring to Abraham 3:22-28 in the above quote.
This was a very interesting talk by Bro. Perkins. I recommend it to everyone.
As far as what other Church leaders have said in the past about this topic, I like the quote in this article by Bruce R. McConkie on this subject:
This was a very interesting talk by Bro. Perkins. I recommend it to everyone.
As far as what other Church leaders have said in the past about this topic, I like the quote in this article by Bruce R. McConkie on this subject:
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| There are statements in our literature by the early Brethren that we have interpreted to mean that the Negroes would not receive the priesthood in mortality. I have said the same things, and people write me letters and say, "You said such and such, and how is it now that we do such and such?" All I can say is that it is time disbelieving people repented and got in line and believed in a living, modern prophet. Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world. We get our truth and light line upon line and precept upon precept (2 Ne. 28:30; Isa. 28:9-10; D&C 98:11-12; 128:21). We have now added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don't matter anymore. |
Bro. Perkins's article quoted dozens of scriptures so anyone who really wants more information should read the article. It satisfied me.
Edited: tenaheff on 26th Nov, 2003 - 5:03pmAssociation of Righteousness with Color Studies Doctrine Mormon
| QUOTE (tenaheff @ Nov 26 2003, 12:00 PM) |
| Bro. Perkins's article quoted dozens of scriptures so anyone who really wants more information should read the article. It satisfied me. |
Your summary of it pretty much satisfies me. But then I wasn't really bothered by it to begin with
I will just reiterate that there must be SOME reason that some come through the chosen lines for particular blessings. I just don't know what those reasons are. But it is a very profitable area for discussion.
NightHawk
Page 4 Color Righteousness Association
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| I will just reiterate that there must be SOME reason that some come through the chosen lines for particular blessings. I just don't know what those reasons are. |
I agree with you. I just don't think it means one was more valiant than the other. I do believe there are reasons for just about everything. A lot of them we will not fully understand on this side of the veil.
Color Righteousness Association
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| I don't wish to go to the watchman.org site. |
I understand
The only purpose I added that site was for you to see a picture of Bro. Abel but I think the other sites may have pictures of him too.| QUOTE |
| So, I see that blacks did, in fact, have the priesthood. On the bottom site you listed, I read a very good article by Marvin Perkins, Director of African American Relations for the Southern California Public Affairs Council of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Did you read this? |
Yes, I read it and I thought it was a great, great article.
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This is why forums like this are a good thing, when we take time to include research in our discussions. |
Yes, you're so right. I learn so much from all of you!.
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Why did we stop allowing blacks to hold the priesthood? |
I don't know the answer for that one *shrugs* if you read the whole story of Bro. Abel he was able to go to the Temple and was washed and anointed but he could not do more than that because Brigham Young did not give him the authorization to continue the other ordinances in the Temple. " 1853: Elijah Abel requests permission to go through the temple.
He is denied by Brigham Young. He had already been through the Kirtland Temple for washings and annointings." " 1880: Elijah Abel again denied the Temple endowment. This time he is turned down by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Earlier in his life he participated in washing and anointing ceremonies in the Kirtland Temple and baptisms for the dead in Nauvoo."
" 1895: Joseph F. Smith claims Abel was ordained under direction of Joseph Smith. The Quorum of the twelve discuss the black issue again. Joseph F. Smith is a strong advocate that Joseph meant for blacks to received the priesthood.
In contrast, George Q. Cannon asserts that Joseph Smith instituted ban, but says it is second hand information he heard from John Taylor."
" 1900: President Lorenzo Snow expresses doubts on the issue.
On August 18, 1900, President Lorenzo Snow stated that he wasn't sure whether the existing explanations for the ban had been personal opinions or actual revelations. This is recorded in the minutes of the Council of the Twelve."
" 1908:Joseph F. Smith reverses his position on blacks.
Joseph F. Smith, reverses his position on Elijah Abel's status and now claims that Joseph Smith himself declared Abel's ordination "null and void".
Historians today don't understand this switch as Smith had Abel's ordination certificates which supported his earlier (strongly held) position and don't support his new views."
You can read the whole thing here: https://www.blacklds.org/history.html
I found this whole subject of race in the Church as a very interesting topic of research and study
I want to share also a poem from Elder Abel that when I read it, it touched my heart because even though I'm not an African descendant, but being a minority everywhere I go, I imagine how they may have felt, but I just can imagine...."I feel ours is not a curse, but a gift to us
The best path we can seek
A place where God can lift us
We kneel, and our knees is weak
And when we're kneeling, we understand our fears
We know what all us is feeling
We even cry each other's tears
That's what Jesus done, for all us human folk
Agreed to come get born, feel every pain every poke
So's he can understand us, what it's like to be a slave
So He can get beneath us, and push us outta the grave
So would you rather be the massa, or the roman with the whip
Would you rather nail the Savior, or press vinegar to His lips
Or learn the lessons of suffering, how we ain't nothin' without grace
Oh Jesus, He give us a calling. He gifted us our race."
Edited: LDS_forever on 27th Nov, 2003 - 2:30amAssociation of Righteousness with Color
What a beautiful poem. It sounds like Elder Abel really had it together! I get the impression that he understood that bitterness would have only made things worse for him and decided to just look at the positive in his situation. How inspiring!
Association Righteousness Color - Page 4
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| What a beautiful poem. It sounds like Elder Abel really had it together! I get the impression that he understood that bitterness would have only made things worse for him and decided to just look at the positive in his situation. How inspiring! |
Yes it is!!! I loved the poem and I love his story of faithfulness to the Gospel!
TOPIC: Association of Righteousness with Color