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Does God Exist? - Page 3

However, I don't think that believing that a Higher Power created the universe is the most logical answer. If everything developed from something else the most logical answer is that the universe was born of another universe or was the result of the death of one universe which led to the creation of this one.

Exist God Does

OK...so where did that other universe come from that created this one? Or simply, where and how did it all start?

Does God Exist? Beliefs Religious General

And that is indeed the central question. However, simply because we don't know the answer doesn't mean that we can get away with saying: in the absence of any other kind of evidence we shall simply say that God did it. That is not fact either; it is just as much conjecture as my idea about the "other" universes.

Proof of that is in the divergent understandings of God (in the monotheistic religions) and Gods (in the polytheistic) that have existed and still exist. Show me an objective picture of God. There isn't one, it is all subjective and over and because of these subjective ideas people have fought, argued, made great art and lived lives according to or against the principles within their religion throughout history. But religious ideas are human ideas. Thats why they can differ so much across place and history. No religion-not one-has remained static. New ideas and beliefs are debated, thought over and rejected or accepted. For example. that Jesus was both man and God was not solidified within the Christian faith immediately. It took a couple centuries or so of debate before that was made doctrine. And, when the Jews moved from worshipping many gods to just one,(I think they initially worshipped a pantheon were Baal was the head god) history records that for a time they continued to worship a female goddess against the wishes of the jewish elite because this "new god" was male only and they wanted to continue to worship a female deity too. (She was Baal's wife I think...correct me if I'm wrong about this). They simply don't do that anymore because their religion and all religions are human thought systems given legitimacy by their association with the divine.

Edited: Dougiep on 8th Jan, 2008 - 5:19pm

Page 3 Exist God Does

Your idea of "other" universes creating this universe only answers the later, it does not explain the initial. Is it really a complete idea? While you may disagree with it, God provides us with a complete idea and if you believe certain religions will provide us with the ending too. As I said, keep asking where did that come from and at some point you are stuck... In your case, where did the "other" universes come from to create ours. You may continue to say that "other" universes created those as well, indefinitely, but you will never be able to go back to the beginning and are neglecting it.

Honestly, I believe that who/however the universe was created, will be well beyond our principles and laws that we have set up for governing our tangible universe. I keep going back to E=MC2. A truly brilliant equation. Most all of us believe in electrons, but you cannot show me one. You can only show me evidence of what it does. We have elements on the periodic table that you cannot bottle, but yet we believe they are there...by what means? Well, we see a picture of it as we smash it with a proton. Still you will never be able to touch it, you can only see what it does.

I liken God to pure power and perhaps that is how God created the universe. Perhaps, he gave of himself to create this...the MASS.

Now if we are only talking about a God from religious description, then there are many bones to pick as you have described. I do still find it funny and interesting that through time we had Gods for all of our special needs. Again, we do seem to think we are the center of the universe. At least, we have seemed to boil it down to one God in general that is capable of one-stop shopping.

Maybe there was more than one god, but then again...where did they come from...or where did it start. The nature of the question brings us back to singularity.

Exist God Does

You see for me, is is the exact opposite. To say "god did it" is not the complete answer. It is an easy answer and to some extent a lazy answer too. I'm not trying to be offensive, let me explain: when I made the point about our universe being created from other universes I admitted it was conjecture. There is another theory that says that as our universe is expanding it will eventually expand so far that it will be able to do nothing but contract to its beginning point-crushing everything previously created. A new universe will begin with another "big bang" from the same point and the cycle will continue. This too is an educated guess based on current scientific understanding.

However, the religious person doesn't need to think about anything or posit any ideas because all the they need say is: "God did it." There is no further reason to investigate anything if you they keep saying: "God did it." Why would the religious person need to look any further because they already know the answer? But what if the answer is wrong? They will never know becasue at no point did they check their answer.

Were a religious understanding of Creation and a scientific understanding differ is that the former will never say: " I don't know how the universe was created but this is what I think: better yet this is what I can prove" because the religious person already has their answer: God did it. What a scientist will freely admit is that they don't know the answer but here is their best guess which they will try to prove our disprove through some kind of experiment.

No one knows how the universe began, all of us can only guess. But at least scientists are willing to admit their ignorance and as such are willing to try and find the correct answer.

I agree with you here. The discovery of the atom and the fact that the electrons and protons within it act in ways that are completely outside of the "normal" physical laws we work with everyday (such as being able to be literally in two places at once) shows that the universe undoubtedly has many more surprises to offer us.

I think this is reference to Deism-the belief that God is the universe? Also, it is almost like the idea (I think it comes from Buddhism) that everything is part of the one spirit. I like the idea of this. There is that wonderful saying that "we are all made of stars" and its true. The atoms that make up our bodies will have been, at some point in their long history, part of a star out there in the cosmos...pretty cool eh?

How else could we get through the day?!

Edited: Dougiep on 9th Jan, 2008 - 2:41pm

Does God Exist?

For me, I believe that God does not exist.

I believe that there has never been any concrete evidence to show that He exists. I know some of you say that God has written his scriptures and/or teachings in the form of the Bible, the Qur'an and etc, I beg to differ. Let me show you an example. In the olden days, people were basically illiterate and were always subservient to whoever they may serve. A simple dictator could order writers and sculptors to build a legacy for him/herself by simply making up a "story" depicting him/herself as the "holy one".
The tyrant could just order everyone in the region to worship him/her. Those who don't are held captive or murdered. As time passes, the true story of the tyrant faded and people started doing these rituals which were adopted as teachings by God.

I know that I do not have any concrete evidence to support my arguments above. But, just think about it for a moment. Sounds plausible doesn't it? Practically any leader/dictator/wealthy person could influence people into worshiping them lest untoward "accidents" befall them.

Moving on, I believe that humans have a weakness. A weakness to believe that someone of a higher level will somehow guide them out of their problems. This weakness, together with the aforementioned point makes them believe that God, who is a kind-hearted, loving and forgiving deity will help them in every way he can. Every problems the person solved are linked with God. This is hand, strengthens his/her faith that God exists. On the other hand, should any problem beset the person such as a death of his/her family members or the loss of personal possessions, the person will believe that he/her had committed a grave sin and deserved to be punished accordingly by God. To me, this theory mentioned does not hold water.

To prove my point further, just check the history books. Pagans worshiped the earth, the sky, the sun, the stars and any other worshipable object for protection against illnesses, a good harvest and etc. Any catastrophe that may occur is likened with whether or not someone has enraged the Gods of the Earth, Sky, Sun and etc. (as in Egyptian gods). This shows that the human race always had a weakness in believing the existence of deities.

I also believe that all religions are selfish in one way or another. Each religion says that their respective Gods created the world, Allah, Jesus Christ and etc. Come on, if each person in the world believed that what he/she believes in is the rightful truth, then there would be thousands of Gods, and thousands of world. So which one of them are we living in now? Allah's? Jesus'? etc etc.

Certain religions believe in the Adam and Eve theory. If they were ACTUALLY the first male and female respectively in the world, do you actually think that there would be any evidence to show this? The advent of written postings only existed within the last 5000 years. Surely history has proven that the Paleolithic times have existed over 200,000 years ago. How is it that the first "human being" existed at 3000B.C when there were humans who existed long before then? What is the possibility that the first humans are actually smart enough to even write down records of these incidents?


Wow, that took awhile. By the way, thanks for reading my post. I know that some of you may not agree with what I have said but I believe it is of my right to state out what I believe in as what all of you have done. I know I may not be right in everything I have said so do forgive me. Do correct me if the need arises. If you find my post somewhat immature, do forgive me as I am only 17 this year. Thanks again for your time.

Edited: trein91 on 3rd Oct, 2008 - 7:16pm