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Christ Did As Our Father Did......? - Page 2

There is a big "if" there...Just food for the thought....

I have thought about this question before while studying other gospel topics. I thought the scripture that LDS quoted was talking about those who DID NOT repent or take claim through the atonement of being cleansed. I thought the IF was speaking of people not choosing to partake of the atonement would have to suffer that themselves.

Rather off topic, but... I was under the impression that the sins committed after a calling and election were also not covered by the atonement, anyone heard that?

And maybe I am not seeing the big picture but the scripture states that Christ SAW the Father do certain things, how would that be possible if Christ is his first born of the spirit children--would he even of existed while our Heavenly Father carried out his own Earth life and death?

Did Father Our Did Christ

AlaskanLDS:

Yes, that's exactly what is saying, those who do not repent. Not sure of your question here?

Not sure, maybe he saw it in the same way Nephi and others received it through visions? What do you think?

Rather off topic, but... AlaskanLDS, once a person receives their Call and Election Made sure they are guaranteed exaltation in the celestial kingdom, only the unpardonable sin would stop them.

Christ Did As Our Father Did......? Studies Doctrine Mormon

Interesting topic. D&C 19:16-17 I think does not say that we can suffer for our sins like Christ has done. I think that is an assumption that we tend to make from the wording. As stated we suffer like Christ if we do not repent. I feel that this is saying that we will suffer until we come to repentance. Granted that this suffering is in some way is compared to Christ's suffering, but how we do not know. Is it in pain, sadness, guilt or in duration? We do not really know and any guess is an assumption. We just know that to some degree it is compared to what he suffered. But how and to what degree he does not say other then it was painful. It does not even say when this suffering takes place. I think we make an assumption to say that it is regarding suffering after judgment or death. It also does not say anything about this suffering pays for sin but rather it is a consequence to sin. In other words sin causes some Christ like suffering in our lives that it will be present in our lives at some point until we repent.

As for being like God I to believe that we do not have to go through what Christ has done to be exalted for his atonement is sufficient for our progression. Lately I have also changed my position about the Father being a messiah as well. After reading Blake Ostler's new Mormon theology series I have changed my view point. I do not think God the Father ever was a Messiah per say, I also have come to the conclusion that he does not have a Father either, but that he has always been God the Father and always will be. After reading Joseph's sermon on the grove and king Follet discourse through Blake's analysis it seemed pretty clear to me at least that Joseph did not teach this. But that is my opinion.

Page 2 Did Father Our Did Christ

"The Savior's example of going the extra mile to find His lost sheep is evident throughout the scriptures. . . . The Good Shepherd knew when one of His sheep was missing. . . . He searched for that which was lost. . . . We also know that He did not give up, . . . and when He returned, the lost sheep was safely on His shoulders."
Ref. (Mervyn B. Arnold, "Strengthen Thy Brethren," Ensign, May 2004, 47)

Did Father Our Did Christ

Name: Gordon

Comments: Christ did as His Father did, God the Father was once a man like we are now, and thoughout the eternities the Plan of Salvation is one eternal round after another. For me, the key to understanding godhood or eternal progression is to understand the nature of Jehovah, the God of this Earth, and to understand the power which was invested in Him by Elohim.

But first, how did Jehovah get to bcome a God in Elohim's Spirit World? It seems reasonable to believe that Jehovah was previously created as a spirit personage by Eiohim on another world and given a mortal body for his spirit body to dwell in to experience agency and ultimately the development of Elohim's character. Because of his faithfulness and obedience to the teachiings of his savior, Elohim, Jehovah was allowed to return to the presence of His Heavenly Father, Elohim, to continue his eternal progression towards Godhood.

At some point in time in the spirit world of Elohim, Jehovah's will becomes one (perfect) with Elohim's will, whereby Elohim grants His power to Jehovah to conceive His own spirit children in Elohim's spirit world or (heaven). I also believe that Lucifer and Michael were also able to progress in Elohim's Kingdom the same as Jehovah in the sense that they also conceived their own spirit children. I believe that Lucifer, understanding the painful sacrifice that had to be made for himself to progress to this point, wanted to find a painless way out for himself to be able to save his spirit family, and decided on the use of force to eliminate sin in the lives of his spirit children. Michael on the other hand, aligned himself with Jehovah in the acceptance and implementation of Elohim's plan of salvation permitting agency or free will to exist for the developement of our Godlike character.

All three of these Spirit Gods (Jehovah, Michael and Lucifer) I believe were commanded to build an earth for their spirit children to live on. Because Jehovah was the first born of Elohim or the first to have his will become one (perfect) with Elohim's, Elohim chose him to be in charge of the spiritual instruction of not only His spirit children, but also Michaels and Lucifers. However, Lucifer convinces his spirit children to rebell against the authority given by Elohim to Jehovah, and convinces his spirit family not to partake of the plan of salvation of Elohim because of the pain and suffering that is associated with it. Consequently, you have 1/3 of Elohim's family cteated by Lucifer rebelliing against the plan.

Up to now, Jehovah, Michael, and Lucifer do not have a ressurrected body, even though they are considered (Spirit Gods in progress) in Elohim's kingdom. I think that both Michael and Lucifer under the direction of Jehovah assisted in the creation of the physical earth on which we dwell. And it is only after the earth had been created, and now ready for their spirit children to come to their earth to receive a physical body, that Lucifer rebells, creating the war in heaven, with the resulting consequence of having himself and his spirit family cast down to earth without receiving a physical mortal body.

However Michael receives his ressurrected glorified body on our earth which would never die in the personage of Adam, with Eve being the ressurrected personage of the wife that he had been sealed to. Both Adam and Eve had glorified physiical bodies that were immortal. However Elohim had seen to it by casting Lucifer and his followers to the earth, and by issuing a command not to partake of the forbidden fruit, that mortal bodies would once again be created for the spirit children of Jehovah and Michael's family to inhabit.

Jehovah, whom Elohim had placed in charge of this new round of creation, continues to oversee and direct the spiritual instruction and guidance of His and Michael's spirit children who are now coming to earth to receive a mortal physical body, while still residing as a Spirit God in Elohim's kiingdom. Jehovah's glorified, ressurrected physical body is finally created with the humble birth a baby born in a manager, as the long awaited promised Messiah, or Savior of the world.

All of Jehovah, Michael and Lucifier's spirit children are really Elohim's children in the sense that they could not have been created by them without Elohim's power which had been invested in them.

Do I think that every latter-day saint will become a Savior, the answer is no. But I believe that in every round of creation, one of our brothers whose will has matured the first, or is the most intelligent, or had become the first spiritually born son, will become the savior. The rest of us will become either Adam's or Satan's in the next round of creation of a new world, whose power will have been given to us by the Son of God, Jesus Christ, even Jehovah, the God of this earth. Our agency will continue to be tested even if we become a Spirit God in the Spirit World of Jehovah & Elohim.

Source 1: Mosiah 7:27 ...Christ was the God, the Father of all things, Alma 11:38-39 ...son of God..is the very eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are...
Source 2: Ether 3:14 ...I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.

Christ Did As Our Father Did......?

Name: Gordon

Comments: Question: Is there a need for another Messiah for each round of creation of a new earth? I'm changing my opinion...the answer I believe is no.

The scriptures tell us the Jesus Christ's atonement was infinite and eternal. The scriptures tell us the Jesus Christ created worlds without number.

God, our Heavenly Father is ultimately the creator or organizer of all spirit matter, and as such is the father of all spirit children; however he delegates to his righteous children the right to preside over some of his spirit children as parents, in an effort to endow the perfection of His character to more of his eternal family.

I am of the opinion that all righteous saints are being prepared to become gods or future "Adam and Eve" to bring forth the physical mortality of the spirit children which God has entrusted into their care upon a new world already created by Jesus Christ, but presently not inhabited.

In order for our Heavenly Father's Plan to work granting our spirit children agency, one of our spirit brothers who is also progressing in godhood in the spirit world, must rebell against the plan, and be cast down with his followers to the new earth as a Satan.

I also speculate that other worlds yet to be inhabited, will not need a new savior because the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught on this earth, will be taught on other worlds. And that at some point in time, Jesus Christ will personally appear to the inhabitants of other worlds the same as he did to the ancient Nephites on the American continent after his resurrection when he revealed the signs of his atonement for the sins of all worlds without number by the crucifixion markings on his physical body.

Source 1: 2 Nephi 9: 7 infinite atonement... Source 2: D & C 76:24 worlds are created...

Christ Did Our Father Did...... - Page 2

Gordon: I agree I do not think that there is a need for a Savior on other worlds. I was unclear though on your idea if God created or organized "spirit matter". This is a huge difference in theology. I believe that he organized not create.

I have to disagree, I do not believe in the Adam God theory.  Yes Pres. Young taught it but I feel that he was wrong.  It does not have much of a theological leg to stand on in Christianity or Mormonism for that matter.  That is why it slowly lost any influence in the church after his death. But this is not the place to get into it. I feel that godhood is just the humanity at its fullness.  The be fully human and to expereince humanity in its fullest is to be divine. I do not think that this means that we have to re-enter mortality again and fall.  We believe in a "socialtarian trinity" so having to be "Adam" makes no sense in the LDS ideas of godhood, and really falls short when it is theologically scrutinized.

This idea has a lot of problems as well.  If God needs one to rebel, then how does this work with the libertarian idea of agency we tend to support?  What if one does not rebel? If God knows that one will, or makes provisions, then we sound more like Calvinists then we do LDS.  You can really get in a lot of trouble with agency and the ideas of omnipotence and omnipresence. These issues I think would get this idea in a lot of confusion and theological trouble.

There is a lot of theological problems with this idea. First, if Jesus already experienced mortality at some point, then why did he have to suffer in order to know how to succor his people as the BOM teaches? He would have already understood this and what it meant to suffer. Furthermore how would we explain D&C 93 which says that he Christ grew grace to grace while here in mortality? If he had already experienced sin, temptation and was not susceptible to it here on earth then can we really say that he was tempted during his 40 day fast? If he could not have sinned then is it really a temptation? Sin is connected to the mortal life so if Jesus was already mortal and perfected then he would not have had to deal with this in order to succor us, because he would have already experienced it. Furthermore the brother of Jared tells us that Jesus/ Jehovah was a spirit, and had not taken on flesh.

I just do not see any scriptural or theological reasoning for this, without causing problems with essential ideas of atonement, and progression, and godhood. The idea that Satan & Jehovah, Michael "conceived" spirit children is odd and not doctrinal in my opinion. It also makes very little theological sense.

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Christ Did Our Father Did...... Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

Isiah53:

How do you know that? I just wanted to know if you have any sources for this since many times I wondered about people living in other planets and whether or not they know about Jesus and if they did if they are aware he died here on Earth?