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Does The Mormon Church Back Israel? - Page 2

Yes there will be an Israel, but what I am saying is that many including Jews do not think that modern day Israel is that nation. There are around 13-14 million Jews in the world and only 5-6 million live in Israel. Over half of them live in the U.S. Or other places. I am just saying could this not be a possibility in considering the violence and political policies of a people? Do not get me wrong. I think that Israel is in a bad situation and that their lives are in danger. The threat is real, but I wonder if all of their national policies are warranted.

Don't take this for what it is worth. There are problems with this idea in the Old Testament. This idea is contradictory it seems that Israel did not commit genocide on the people of the land. Here is the scriptural proof: Joshua 12:10 and Judges 1:1, Joshua 10:40 and Judges 1:10, 1:9-17; Joshua 12:16 compare Judges 1:22, Josh. 12:21 compare to Judges 12:21, 27, and to see where all of the inhabitants came from read Judges 1:29-36.
I can give you more references, but I think this is enough to make my point that the writer of Judges and the writer of Joshua clearly disagree that Joshua's genocide campaign actually happened. The book of Joshua is a typical ancient near eastern propaganda book. If you study ancient history this is a typical thing for nations to do. If you do not believe if the differences, how do you discount them?
This also makes me wonder about our picture of God in the Old Testament and how we can justify some of Israel's (or any one for that matter) actions based on the claim of prophecy and the idea of an Old Testament God. Just some caution on my part.

Why would Israel a Jewish Nation allow a Christian group to direct their Jewish temple building? Why would they accept a Christian Prophet as theirs? Do they not convert of Christ much later after the temple is constructed during his return? Does not the temple constructed during the final days before his coming? I am not too sure that I agree with any deep or direct involvement of the church in any of Israel's prophecies.

Israel Church Mormon Does

I think we must first establish that Jerusalem and the surrounding areas are indeed the Gathering place for the Jews to usher in the Last Days.

Doctrine and Covenant 109 61-64

There is no doctrinal doubt, that this is where the Gathering must take place, regardless of the thought of Jewish Rabbis today. They have no revelatory knowledge concerning the restoration of Israel and must rely wholly on the traditions of their Fathers. Therefore they do not have any more special knowledge on events that must occur before their Messiah (Jesus, though they do not know it) returns, then the Modern Day Christian has about the true nature of God.

Jerusalem and the areas around Jerusalem is the Gathering place of the Jews.

Joseph Smith once taught:

Orson Pratt stated:

So many of the Jews who are gathered today will fight the work of the Lord, but there must be some of that land who will assist in the work.

Wilfred Woodruff

There must be a conversion by a portion of the Jews. This will happen before Christ comes, because he will not come until his temple in Jerusalem is rebuilt. I am not sure how this must happen due to the situation that they find themselves today, but it is prophesied that there will be a portion of the Jews who convert to the Church of Jesus Christ. Then, under the direction of the First Presidency they must rebuild the temple, with the help, I believe, of the political leadership that exists at that time.

The following is my opinion: The financial situation at the time when the Temple will be built will be so dire that financing of the Temple cannot be done by most entities. The Church of Christ will have the ability to finance (through tithing) and provide workers who will gladly help build the Temple. The Government of Israel will reluctantly agree to allow the LDS church to help pay primarily for the building of the Temple and will be involved in its planning. Considering the many Natural disasters, Wars and calamities that are occurring, it is entirely possible that the financial help by the Church will have been used to rebuild other parts of Jerusalem to beatify it for years before this, and help with the Temple will be natural. I think it will be likely that the Government in Israel will be secular in its thinking, or at least a portion of them have joined the Church, so the Political barriers that are their will be mostly removed.


Do I believe that this will happen with the current leadership in Israel? No, but I believe that the country that is now Israel must be a part of the rebuilding process. But I could be wrong.

Rather off topic, but... I believe God did in fact require ancient Israel to exterminate entire populations, an act that is contrary to every sensitivity that we have today. But our ways are not his ways. God killed an entire civilization with the flood, and he will kill at least a third of Modern day man through plague, earthquake, and War. Why is it so hard to believe that he would use man to carry out his merciful punishments (not allowing an entire generation of people born into wicked nations). Are you really saying that God has never killed people to further his purposes, or that this is outside the realm of a loving God? DEUT. 20 16-17 QUOTE 16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:   17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee: I take this scripture at face value. God asked the Israelites to kill every thing that breathes, Man Woman, Child, and the beasts of burden. Though harsh in our ears, I believe there was mercy (in the eternal perspective) behind these commands.

I take this scripture at face value. God asked the Israelites to kill every thing that breathes, Man Woman, Child, and the beasts of burden. Though harsh in our ears, I believe there was mercy (in the eternal perspective) behind these commands.

Does The Mormon Church Back Israel? Studies Doctrine Mormon

Let me rephrase this question: Does the Church want a strong Jewish Presence in the Holy Land?

If the answer is yes, then there must must be a strong Jewish Nation (politically and militarily) in the area, because the entire Muslim world would utterly destroy every living Jew if they had the power. Today the Jews are "Nursed by the Gentiles" as the Bible predicts, and if they were not, they could hardly survive.

If the answer is that the Church does not want a strong Jewish presence in the Holy Land then there would not be any support for the Nation of Israel.

I believe it is the former.

Page 2 Israel Church Mormon Does

I think we established this. I can only speak for myself but I did not say that this was not the case, nor that I believed any differently. I think my question is perhaps we are assuming that this gathering or the Israel that was prophesied is the actual current Israel nation. I think that since it is a small majority of Jews in the world that perhaps it is not the Jewish nation at this time that the prophecies speak of. They seem to speak about a larger group in Jews, or Israel as a whole, which the current Israel is not nor represents politically or spiritually.
So I think that we are talking past each other. So my question to you is not that the prophecies will not happen but rather is the current Israel that nation that the prophecies talk about? I think this is an idea up to debate.

I am not sure this is correct. Does not the Ezekiel say that in the final days when Israel faces destruction that the messiah will come and split the mountain so that they can escapes and he will save Israel, and then they (the Jews) will see the prints in his hands and in his feet and ask him that that is and he will then say that these are the things that I suffer in the house of my friends. Implying that then the Jews will know he is Christ and then they will enter the temple at the east gate with him.. That sounds much later then you propose.

Rather off topic, but... Yes I do struggle with a violent god in the O.T. I think I have found away around it that works for me.(to long to explain here) I do not think that God kills or puts righteous punishment on others as you put it. So yes I struggle with Nephi, Capt. Moroni, and others. However the flood I find easy because I think it is more of a myth not literal as most old testament stories. I think that wickedness reaps what it sows, not so much that God punishes, but rather wickedness is never happiness and by its own actions creates responses that lead to destruction. That is what the BOM teaches me. Thus I find myself more responsible when violence happens even if it may be justified. I tend to not put my actions upon God, thus scapegoating him for my feelings, and actions of "just punishment." I think this is dangerous. I think that the atonement has taught me this. QUOTE I take this scripture at face value. God asked the Israelites to kill every thing that breathes, Man Woman, Child, and the beasts of burden. Though harsh in our ears, I believe there was mercy (in the eternal perspective) behind these commands. Yes this mercy is called genocide. This is what they practice in Darfor and Germany during the Nazi regime. If we accept this, then how can we say for certain that Hitler was not the servant of God if God allows such behavior? Do we say he is not because we are on the winning side? I think this is dangerous very dangerous. I do not think God commands genocide. It is immoral no matter for what reasons. (thus God would cease to be God) If God did do this, why does Jesus not do the same thing in the N.T.?He is the revelation of who God is. If you take it for face value then why will you not take the scriptures in Judges that I gave you that contradict that the Genocide ever happened? You seem to not take these into account?

Yes this mercy is called genocide. This is what they practice in Darfor and Germany during the Nazi regime. If we accept this, then how can we say for certain that Hitler was not the servant of God if God allows such behavior? Do we say he is not because we are on the winning side? I think this is dangerous very dangerous. I do not think God commands genocide. It is immoral no matter for what reasons. (thus God would cease to be God) If God did do this, why does Jesus not do the same thing in the N.T.?He is the revelation of who God is. If you take it for face value then why will you not take the scriptures in Judges that I gave you that contradict that the Genocide ever happened? You seem to not take these into account?

Israel Church Mormon Does

I'm pretty the sure that if it came down to it the church would rather back Israel than Muslim states. You're more likely to be blown up by a Muslim than an Jew.

Does The Mormon Church Back Israel?

Officially I believe the church shows that it definitely wants a presence there. We have BYU Jerusalem there and we've been trying to make more inroads into Israeli society.

Does Mormon Church Israel - Page 2

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