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I have always had the firm belief that God - Page 2 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 19th Jul, 2007 - 7:28pm
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Post Date: 8th Aug, 2003 - 12:29pm / Post ID: #
Saved in Ignorance? - Page 2
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| Have you ever wondered if it would be fair for the person who already died in ignorance to now receive the Gospel in the Spirit World verses someone who had to accept here based on faith? Or is faith necessary in the spirit world when they are confronted with knowledge and truth necessary for understanding? I guess the point I am putting across is this... how will all men really come to know that Jesus is the Christ even if they do not follow him? Would ignorance in this life be a plus because there would be a better hope in the next for some? |
I have heard it said that in the life to come it wil actually be harder to accept the gospel... Our desires, addictions and convictions will all be enhanced...
We are also told that they will be taught the gospel and be judges "after the flesh"...
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| They are Christ's, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God. And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his acoming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh. |
Also there will be the work of the millenium bringing many who were innocent to the gospel... how will these all be tried in their faith? Simple actually... the Bible tells us that after the Millennial reigh of Christ
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| And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. |
In the D&C we are shown the same thing...
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| For Satan shall be bound, and when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the earth |
The pupose of this 'little season' is to 'gather his army'
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| And then he shall be loosed for a little season, that he may gather together his armies |
This 'season' will be the chance for satan to tempt us all one last time to try to prove that even in perfection we will follow him instead of Heavenly Father... Mostly I can see the ones who fall being from the "innocent" category because he will use their old beliefs against them...
Is this fair? of course it is... Do we think so? Probably not, but Jesus gave us this Parable to help us understand...
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| FOR the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire alabourers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. |
Just my thoughts...
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Ignorance Saved
| QUOTE |
| I have heard it said that in the life to come it wil actually be harder to accept the gospel... |
I believe that stands for those who already received a chance and then rejected it. I believe the man in the jungle will not be treated in like manner.
My point on this is that man may not have his eyes opened fully in the next life. There may be a state of 'awareness' but there must be something that causes a man to stay convicted to a belief even after living beyond death, even if that belief is in things opposition to God.
Saved in Ignorance? Studies Doctrine Mormon
| QUOTE |
I believe that stands for those who already received a chance and then rejected it. I believe the man in the jungle will not be treated in like manner. |
I agree here. Those who have lived "good" lives, in spite of never hearing the gospel, I think will be better able to accept it -- and be judged differently.
| QUOTE |
| My point on this is that man may not have his eyes opened fully in the next life. There may be a state of 'awareness' but there must be something that causes a man to stay convicted to a belief even after living beyond death, even if that belief is in things opposition to God. |
Yes. Why else would it be necessary to preach the gospel in the spirit world? We also know that before the Savior was resurrected, many spirits were bound and waiting in some sort of "prison," and that at His resurrection, the Savior "opened the door" which gave them notice of what He had done, and that their chance was coming, and He taught them the gospel. And these in turn taught to others. So it has to be possible to be in some sort of spiritual realm and still not know what is happening -- particularly, I would think, for people who have never heard the gospel.
Roz
Page 2 Ignorance Saved
Wanlorn said:
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| So will we have to hand coddle Jack and Jill Mormon untill the Resurection? |
Yep. That's one most obvious thing I've learned since I started teaching (and I 've learned *a lot* since I started teaching). Most people are happy to have the gospel spoon fed to them, rather than take it upon themselves to learn it. Now, in all fairness, in my previous active phase, I did the same thing. I was happy just to be going to church, and didn't feel I needed to study anything. In this new phase of my life, I am so excited about the gospel, I feel like a new convert. And I recognize in other people the lack of motivation that I had before. So I'm doing my best to light a fire, so to speak. I'm so grateful for teaching, because I learn more than anyone --
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| Or is there a time when they must take on the responsibilty for their own salvation? |
The time is now. We are each responsible for our own salvation first, then for our family's salvation. Anyone else we can aid in their salvation is extra blessings.
Roz
Roz
Ignorance Saved
| QUOTE |
| The time is now. We are each responsible for our own salvation first, then for our family's salvation. Anyone else we can aid in their salvation is extra blessings. |
True, logic dictates that anyway since one cannot 'pull' someone up if one is on a 'lower' footing. It is amazing how many think they can do it the otherway around.
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| And I recognize in other people the lack of motivation that I had before. |
It is good that you can 'see' the difference. I see this among the membership sometimes. You talk about something (Gospel related topic) that is exciting but the members are in the mode of 'whatever'. :
Saved in Ignorance?
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| You talk about something (Gospel related topic) that is exciting but the members are in the mode of 'whatever'. |
It's sad to see. I figure the best I can do is try to be an example, make my lessons interesting and thought-provoking, as LDS_Forever mentioned. And pray for my brothers and sisters.
Post Date: 19th Jul, 2007 - 2:15pm / Post ID: #
Saved Ignorance - Page 2
"We come to this world in many colors, shapes, sizes, and circumstances. We don't have to be rich, tall, thin, brilliant, or beautiful to be saved in the kingdom of God--only pure. We need to be obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ and keep His commandments. And we can all choose to do that regardless of where we live or what we look like."
(Clate W. Mask Jr., "Standing Spotless before the Lord," Ensign, May 2004, 93)
Saved Ignorance Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2
I have always had the firm belief that God is the Perfect Judge. He takes all life circumstances and uses these to determine what we will receive. The child who was beaten and sexually abused all of his early life will not be judged by the same standard that the life long member of the Church who has lived in a loving family is Judged. I believe this is true even if that child later learns about the Church and rejects it.
The Prophet Joseph Smith said:
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"While one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy, the Great Parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard; "¦ He holds the reins of judgment in His hands; He is a wise Lawgiver, and will judge all men, "¦ "not according to what they have not, but according to what they have," those who have lived without law, will be judged without law, and those who have a law, will be judged by that law" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 218). |
I believe that this may include those who through life circumstances have a warped view of the reality of the gospel. We do not know why a certain member does not take his beliefs serious, but it is our responsibilty to lovingly help them work out problems that are a impediment to their salvation. None of us are as independent as we think, and we all need to do better.
TOPIC: Saved in Ignorance?