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God And Agency. Does He Have It?

God and Agency. Does He Have it? I believe so; the other day we got in a really long conversation with some of my friends.
And that was the point; I told them that God has to have Agency, and 2 of them Disagreed...

What I am trying to imply is that we cannot say that he does not have the Power to pick between God and Evil(part of Agency), but he abides Celestial Laws of Progression continually which means he is never gonna do something wrong that is going to mess us up. But he does have the Power to Choose.

My Friends view is that he has no agency because he gave up his will to his Father, which makes sense but, he still has Agency, does not he?

Alma 26:35

Those attributes could only be developed with Agency for Wisdom is Knowledge applied. By no means I am saying that God is progressing in Knowledge and Understanding but, he does exercise Agency.

Moses 4: 3

How could a Being that "has no" agency give agency to other beings?
It just seems wrong, anyhow, that is my opinion...

Edited: Elix on 5th Nov, 2007 - 4:53pm

It He Agency God

I believe only in the LDS doctrine can God as a Supreme being have any agency.


The following is my opinion why God has the ultimate in Free Agency.

If we believe God has gone through the difficulty of mortality, overcoming all temptations and difficulties making the ultimate sacrifices to become who he is, then he has gone past the desire or need to commit evil. He has gained all knowledge and sees the ultimate consequence of all decisions. The fact that he has become God (Capital G) does not mean he is restricted in his Choices, but it means that his choices in the past have led him to the point where all of his choices are for our ultimate good.

He, by default has overcome evil in his own life. Thus we can have an assurance that he will always choose goodness. This does not take away his free agency, it just lets us know that he has freely chosen the path that allows us to worship him in his Perfection.

God And Agency. Does He Have It? Studies Doctrine Mormon

I suppose if you really pushed the idea, God could theoretically chose evil. He is free to do so. The consequences would be disasterous. He would cease to be God, and I dare say we might cease to exist. At least I think our tangible universe would probably cease to exist.

He chooses to be God. He's not going to change. I'm guessing that someone gets to that unchangeable stage first as a pre-condition for becoming a God (capital G). I would not confer power like that on someone who had any chance of choosing wrong and screwing it up for so many trillions (or infinite) conscious beings they would organize or generate.

It all goes back to that criticism thrown about by Lucifer and his followers -- good people are trapped, and evil people are free to do anything they want. In fact, the opposite is true. Choosing "evil" generally has some limiting consequences. Take your pick: drug addiction, murder, lying, etc., etc. They either limit your freedom directly or reduce your resources and options in the future.

Doing "good" usually does not limit your ability to later chose evil. Evil sometimes/often limits your ability to later chose good.

It He Agency God

I feel that God may not have the ability to choose evil, because God's very nature is goodness .It is not in his nature to choose evil because his very nature is love and goodness. Like John states God is love. He does not choose to love he is love. God in the same since does not choose to do good, he is good. It is a part of him. Thus if he chooses evil then his in a since chooses to not be himself or in scriptural language he would cease to be God. He is an embodiment of Good. It would be like telling us to stop being ourselves. Now can god choose to take away his nature and have choice, perhaps but how? I guess that God has the power to pick between good and evil because he has all power, but I do not think that ever becomes an issue unless he will sit to become an issue. (which is what Christ did with Satan's temptations.)

As for Christ, I feel the same way. Like John infers, Jesus will is more then his submission to the Father's will. His will is the Fathers' will. If father desired Jesus to die on the Cross then Jesus' desired to die on the cross. If there will is the same then that is a very different relationship then what we have with Father. If his will is the Father's as John suggests, then what did he submit too? He submitted to his own will. Sure Christ was tempted, but that does not mean that he ever considered it or that it was a temptation as we experience it. (I guess we would have to explore the semantics of temptation to answer that.)

It He Agency God

"How wonderful that we have earned the trust of God! He trusts you! He trusts me! "When we receive the priesthood, we do so by covenant. A covenant is a mutual promise. He promises to bless us on certain conditions. We promise to fulfill those conditions. As we do so, the Lord always keeps His word and gives us the blessing. Usually He gives us more than agreed. He is very generous."

Ref. Stanley G. Ellis "He Trusts Us!" Ensign, Nov. 2006, 51