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God Of The Old Testament - Page 2

Sorry but I just do not buy blood atonement. It does has a lot of problems within the theology. how can Christ's atonement be infinite if it has limitations? How can every knee bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ (I.e. Savior) if not everyone does not expereince the atonement in there lives. If he does not atone for all sin then he is not the Christ to some. Besides I believe the church has disavowed blood atonement. It is not theologically sound.

Yes this is what I been told, but I question this assumption. It seems like an easy way to get to explain this away, but after thinking about it I find problems (and not much answers). It does not make since as to why I would have to kill something to symbolize what Christ will do. Especially when Christ's atonement was to stop bloodshed for sin. If it is symbol or similitude of his death, then why do we not have to make that symbol today? maybe this is more of a cultural idea that many ancient pagan people did and Israel is just following suit,and we perhaps we are looking through a Christian lens. Besides we know that Israel struggles with human and child sacrifice through their history, so it is not to far fetched to say that this may have been a cultural left over from the day. This is just a assumption of course.

Testament The God

Let us take a step further back when Adam and Eve were in Eden. They were living the higher law, where they not?

Law which did not ask for blood sacrifice, for the blood was not in their bodies yet and was not the life of the body as it becomes afterward (see Genesis 9:4; Leviticus 17:11, 14).

How will you teach someone who does not know what is blood and what is for? (See Genesis 2:17) Why will there be a need for bloodshed? (See Moses 5:6)

For me what The Father did was to teach Adam and Eve and through them all of us what death is and why it comes by bloodshed. In addition, how we come to this earth and why there is blood, water and spirit connected with our birth.

I love one great explanation of all this well stated here:

Alma 42:14-25 is probably one good explanation of the ultimate reason behind the sacrifice - mercy to claim all that will repent and be forgiven, to be accepted back with The Father.

How can we all tie this to the God of the Old Testament?

God Of The Old Testament Studies Doctrine Mormon

I am not sure what you are trying to say about these scriptures? These scriptures are only saying that the Lord's people should not consume blood. (which was a pagan practice.) Genesis 9:4 is post flood commandments that parallels the commandments in the garden. (which in it self is very interesting but I do not have the time or space to go into this here.) I am not sure how this has anything to do with not having blood.

I am not so certain that Alma is talking about absolutes here when referring to Mercy and justice. The Hebrew notion of these concepts in much different then what we have come accustom with today. Thus I do not see Christ sacrifice as a payment or even a substitution for sin. In other words I do not think Christ paid for my sins. He atoned for them, but that does not necessary mean he paid for them.

Again this is why I have more questions and suspicions about this concept as it relates to the Old testament.

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Page 2 Testament The God

I too am interested in discussing the Torah and if you would like, please do so, I will appreciate it a lot. For quite a while, discussing it brings me more wisdom and understanding of the Scriptures and a way to see things in a different perspective, which I am looking constantly to do and am learning from it.

My understanding is that in the Garden the bodies of Adam and Eve were without blood.

There was no need of a Savior before they ate of the fruit, moreover they were "living" or communicating with The Almighty directly, for how long I do not know.

Living in the place where The Almighty can come and talk to you face to face, for me, speaks that they were perfect in their current state of existence.

Eating of the fruit that was forbidden by The Almighty is law breaking.

Breaking the law brings punishment.

Part of the punishment is to die.

My understanding is that blood in the body brings death to the body when it is spilled out, I.e. The scriptures that I mentioned.

Dyeing prevents the body from going back to its creator or be resurrected as stated by Job:

I personally think that Atonement is payment for sin.

The Adoni was sent to make the Atonement for all, to become our Redeemer.

This way the Mercy can claim the pure in heart.

I love to discuss this with you further.

Testament The God

Again I do not think that this is scriptural. It is defiantly not on the Old Testament. I know that this has been said by various people in this dispensation, but I am not sure I buy it.

I think 2Nephi 2 say differently. It assumes that the atonement was needed from the very beginning of our pre-existence lives. It was because of an atonement that we had the ability to choose between estates. Thus the atonement is infinite as Jacob testifies meaning it has no beginning or end.

Again I think you have taken those scriptures out of context. They have nothing to do with blood being a symbol of mortality.

Again I personally do not think that the Atonement is a payment of sin. That is a medieval idea of atonement which I do not subscribe too. I also do not think that the Book of Mormon subscribes to it. Why must there be a payment for sin? So fulfill the demands of justice? Whose justice? How is having an innocent person die for the sins of another justice? That is not justice. If I murder a person and my brother takes my punishment for me is that justice? No it is not. However, that is a medieval form of justice that is why that made since some 1000 years ago. I am not a Calvinist so I do not hold that concept of atonement.
Christs Atonement does atone for sin. Do not get me wrong, but not as a form of payment. He does not become a creditor like contrary to some popular LDS talks or parable may think. How redeeming is it to go from one creditor to another? The person is still under a large debt. What kind of atonement is that.
Anyway to bring it back to topic, that is why I have a hard time seeing sacrifices as being a type of Christ. I think that the Jews had it wrong, God did not demand them to sacrifice. There are plenty of places in the minor prophets and in Isaiah that say that God abhors their sacrifices and rituals, and wants a contrite heart and broken spirit.

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God Of The Old Testament

You have me confused.

Please forgive my question; I just need to clarify it for myself: Are you or not member of the LDS Church? This will help me share more of the scriptures that I know and not be framed by the Bible alone.

I will be interested if you share your view of the Atonement and I will share mine.

Perhaps we can learn of each others" angle of viewing on it and learn more about what its meaning is.

Then we can talk more about the God of the Old Testament.

I have recently study this topic and found some very interesting things.

God The Testament - Page 2

Yes I am a member.