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Mormon Violence - The World Has Come To This - Page 2

It seams that the evil will find any way to get into the church even threw members. Some Missionaries get into head counting and they don't care as long as they get a baptism. Is it more important to convert and build the kingdom or consider the safety of members? 2 referrals i got for the missionaries are a more than a little rough around the edges. While they might feel the truth of it, should they be allowed around gods people or should I stay out of it. The missionaries are going to go for baptisms? If I had to choose I would go for the safety of members. I don't think they would do anything. But I don't know. Lets just say I wouldn't trust them around my girlfriend. I would hate to hear 2 years down the road something happening because of one of these. I don't know how I would take it. Something happened very similar to my brother on his Utah mission where he warned the mission president what he saw while giving a petafile a blessing. The mission president told my brother that the convert was better off in the church rather than outside it. My brother refused to baptize him and almost got kicked off his mission. Sure enough we were watching nation wide a year or so after his mission and there it was a description of the child victim and a picture of the man he converted, but refused to baptize. My brother was crushed. In fact that is when he stopped going to church. It was roughly 9 to 10 years ago, some of you may remember it from the news. I would be more than happy to take suggestions. This topic has got me thinking and paranoid. If that was a gun instead of a cutlass there might have been some dead people!

This To Has World - Violence Mormon

First of all, apologies for posting improperly, as a newbie, hopefully you will cut me a little slack.

There are two specific situations that this thread made me think of that deal with both amazing things that have happened and dealing with them. As a background, here are some of the callings that I have held in the past: EQP, Bishop, HP Group Leader, High Counselor, Stake Clerk, and Stake Executive Secretary. I have spent a lot of time in meetings and in dealing with welfare and other taxing situations. Let's start with the two situations, both of which came during my time as serving as bishop:

Situation 1
We had a good set of sister missionaries that were assigned to our ward. One day they brought in a young man that was introduced as "Dr. So and So". I knew immediately that something was amiss. I interviewed the young man and my concern only grew. Regardless, he was soon baptized. He actively began working to establish a social position in the ward, based on his special "genius". I was uneasy during his first official interview, but could find no reason not to ordain him a Priest. He came in about a month later and demanded that I provide him with recommends to receive a patriarchal blessing and ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood. I explained to him that this would be inappropriate and that he needed more time. He pressed the issue and said that his previous training and education qualified him to receive these blessings immediately. I then asked him for his credentials, which he furnished to me a few days later. They were fake. Regardless a number of the members came to press me to grant him the recommends. I politely refused to discuss the issue with them.

The situation grew more serious a few weeks later when he traveled with our young singles to an activity in the neighboring stake. On the way back, he was involved in an altercation with the police that drew in several members in good standing. He also became romantically involved with one of the sister missionaries. I had continued to investigate him and it turned out that he was 19 and had not even graduated from high school. At that point, I quietly took action to protect both the sisters and the members of the ward. Believe it or not, some of the members and the mission president resisted. Finally, he left the ward and hitchhiked to the home of the sister, where her father finally threw him out.

Situation 2
A few months after I was called, a regional representative visited our stake. He gave a fiery talk where he told the members that the Russians would launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike within 2 years (this was in 1985) and that whatever it took they should build their food storage and prepare for the complete meltdown of our society. This was stunning. All stake meetings and councils for the next year focused on preparation, everyone was distracted from doing the real work of building the Kingdom and fear gripped the members of the stake.

It just didn't feel right to me. At first I reasoned that if he was giving us this warning, the same warning must have been given to other stakes. I called around and while the folks in all of the stakes had been guided to draft stake and ward preparation plans, nothing like this message had been given. He came to the stake conference 6 months later and repeated his message. I remained quiet but had my doubts. At the next conference, this regional representative came with a Seventy. He gave a very patriotic talk and stressed preparation, but I noticed that he did not repeat his dire warnings of nuclear catastrophe. At this point, I knew that he was not speaking for the Church and that a year of council meetings had been wasted. A few months later we received a letter that he had been misguided and an offer for him to come to the stake to clear things up. The stake president declined.

Here are the lessons that I learned from these experiences:

1. Listen to the Spirit when you receive a warning, even if no one else does.
2. Many people won't listen, even when faced with facts. Some presume to council and sometimes even pressure their leaders. I was a young bishop and there were also those that felt they needed to guide me. (Believe me, I needed guidance, but I knew where it should come from).
3. We should always be clear headed and use our ability to think and reason. We have been commanded to do so - we aren't supposed to be blindly obedient, but to be informed disciples, "Study it out in your mind".
4. Deal justly and always live by the precepts in Doctrine & Covenants Sections 4 and 121. Yes, you too can be guilty of unrighteous dominion!
5. Act within your sphere of responsibility to protect the members,
6. In the event that someone in authority acts inappropriately it will eventually be sorted out. The offending leader will eventually be released. If the situation is outside of your control, sustain, support, and refrain from trying to "steady the ark". Be ready to help put things right when you are called on to do so.
7. Live so as to have the Holy Ghost as your constant companion. I will freely admit that I made mistakes during my tenure and they came down to the following: judging harshly, not relying enough on the Spirit, not always conducting myself so that I was open to inspiration and revelation, and giving in to popular opinion in the ward; but when my heart was right, I was guided and knew how to do what was needed.

Just because the Church is true, doesn't mean that some of the members or their families aren't struggling with major stresses in their lives, including mental illness. Opposition to the work will also grow and we will have to struggle with it. These things have and will continue to manifest themselves in some strange and amazing situations. Satan will do anything to stop us. Some will make mistakes, but the work will go on. We need to be a part of it, and give our all to it.

Edited: rbogart on 28th Sep, 2004 - 2:25am

Mormon Violence - The World Has Come To This Studies Doctrine Mormon

Rbogart, I enjoyed reading those, and they reminded me of similar experiences that I had while in leadership positions. What you learned is right on target and I am ever more focusing on what is Truth and what is just opinion.

There was one Brother who wanted to be an Elder in the Melchizedek Priesthood bad, but he had a shady past and an obscure present. He convinced some missionaries to speak on his behalf. They barged in on our District meeting demanding that this Brother receive the Melchizedek priesthood. Of course they knew nothing of the Brother's history, and were more willing to trust in him and not us as the leaders. After saying certain key things to the missionaries they left in the same ignorant state in which they entered the room. They later apologized. What was funny about this one occasion is how easily people can be fooled. The proper way would have been to do some research by asking the Bishop, but they, who should have known better, was already convinced that we were wrong because one Brother told them so?

Rather off topic, but... Rbogart, I feel that you will enjoy the many other threads we have here as well as they cover following the Spirit. Check the thread called, 'The Prophet Said So Is That Enough?'. I have also given you mature access so you can see what is on the LDS Mature board.

Page 2 This To Has World - Violence Mormon

17 Mar, 1851 - Brigham Young speaks in favor of Madison D. Hambleton who is being tried for shooting and killing man at LDS church services, immediately after closing prayer. The man "seduced" wife of Hambleton who is "acquitted by the Court and also by the Voice of the people present." Hambleton later becomes sheriff in Utah.

This was from D. Michael Quinnn's book, "The Mormon Hierarchy, Extension of Power". I originally thought he was later made a Bishop but I was wrong, he was made a Sherrif. I have never read the book above, just saw the quote on line. I do understand Brother Quinnn was excommunicated though.

This To Has World - Violence Mormon

While on my mission I was stationed in a small town with about 80 active members. Me and my companion were doing rather well and had seven investigators at church. While in gospel principles are ward mission leaders wife was giving the lesson on the priesthood. Well she began to tell us a story about a time that her daughter was sick. She went on telling us that she being sealed to her husband is able to hold the priesthood with him. She told the class that she had anointed her daughters head and gave her a blessing with the priesthood she jointly held. I of course told her that she couldn't do that. Well she then preceded to argue her point. 45mins later the subject finally was dropped. It was a terrible experience but funny to look back on. Needless to say we didn't have any of those investigators at church agian.

Mormon Violence - The World Has Come To This

This is un update of the guy with the cutlass that came to Church (read first post if you have not). He was in Church Sunday for Branch Conference...yes...he was sitting down there like NOTHING ever happened, the District Presidency invited him specially to come, talked with him and they even joke around like if they were good buddies. His wife, after the incident, was released as a Young Woman President for teaching false doctrine...a week later she was called to be the District Young Women's President....yep...that's how it is here in Trinidad. But do not think that she thinks that what her husband did was wrong....nope...She actually thinks that he did not do ANYTHING wrong and that the person/s he threated to kill "deserved it ALL and more" (textual words). *sighs*

So, the guy came to Church Sunday after the District have invited him to come and it seems like it will not take long until he is re-baptised and admitted in full membership.
So far, the District leaders or Mission President NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE the incident...it is almost like it never happened or we just dream about it. The guy is also a thief and have stolen money from MANY, many members and never returned the money back....and again, they have never mentioned anything about it or do anything about it. ALL the leaders know about it, including the Mission President, yet they have not done a thing!.

It is almost like the leaders are trying to put down the members who try to be active and faithful and highlight the ones that are doing things that are UNBELIEVABLE wrong!. It is so frustrating brothers and sisters...you all cannot imagine....Sunday was Branch Conference and I have not sustain my leaders....this is very sad.

Edited: LDS_forever on 19th Jan, 2005 - 1:09am

Mormon Violence - World Has To This - Page 2

As an update to this... I hear this guy is going to be rebaptized. I do not know when, but from all indications I want to believe that my family can be safe from future instances of this, nevertheless, baptized or not I am watching.

Mormon Violence - World Has To This Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

He is not coming to Church again. I was shocked when I heard he was going to be rebaptized as I know there are several members that have pending law suits against him...yet again, why am I surprised? Anything goes here, one thing for sure, we will have to be very careful since there were already several incidents were people came to look for him at his house, house of his friends and the Church too.