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White, Black, Yellow & Red? - Page 2

Case in point: My grandson's paternal grandfather is part black as far as racial makeup. His father was 1/2 black. This means my grandson would be 1/16 black? His grandfather's skin color is lighter than my son's, yet he is at least 1/4 black. Certain of his features appear "black" so I have been told, but I personally haven't noticed and would not have ever guessed that he is 1/4 black.

At what point would you stop counting percentages? My grandson certainly doesn't have any "black" features that I can see, but he has his mother's nose, which is apparently her father's nose. Does this mean it is a "black nose?" There are some people in this world who are so prejudiced that to them if any amount of "black" blood can be traced then that person is black. However, this designation is usually used as a reason to judge them as less than someone who is not part black. I wonder if the black community views them as black or says you can't be black because your skin color is too light.

Another thought, could my grandson or his mother get preferential treatment under the affirmative action laws in the US based on the statistical makeup of their race, or must they appear black as well?

Is black a race or a color? If my grandson's paternal grandfather's father was Jewish, would that mean my grandson was 1/16 Jewish? Many people consider being Jewish more than a religion but a race.

Edited: tenaheff on 27th Dec, 2004 - 10:44pm

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Tena, I did not understand if the black heritage of your grandson comes from your son's side or your grandson's mother side.
And the explanation you're giving is exactly what is this thread all about, your grandson does not have 'black' features, yet in his blood there is a small percentage of African descendant blood. In my opinion, his nose or his type of hair will not make him 'black'. I will give an example. Most people who have been in Argentina always say there are no 'blacks' there. This is a misconception of how they perceive to be a 'black' person. It is true that it is not common to see the typical African descendant person and Argentinian walking down the road. But there are 2% of the Argentinian population is black and eveybody wonders where are they?. Some of them say the Argentinian Black Organization are blonde with blue eyes yet they are blacks in heritage and this organization consider them as 'black' not because of their skin color, but because of ancestry. Now, I don't know how it is in other parts of the world, I do know that in the US everything is perceived by skin color, so I suppose that for a black person, your grandson is white and for a white person who did notice some of your grandson's features then he is not white. It is really complicated and silly. In my humble opinion, the child should be exposed to both cultures (if parents are interested) and let him enjoy both things. He should never be put in a situation where he has to decide whether he is 'black' or 'white'. Sometimes I think we (human beings) are really primitive with this race thinking huh?. *shaking head*.

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I agree with everything you just said LDS. That is exactly the point I was trying to make.

From his mother's side.

Exactly. Now, let me say this...he has straight blond hair and very blue eyes. In fact, I don't believe anyone would look at him and see any "black" features. I mention his nose because it definately came from his mother and she claims it is from her father. I have only met her father once and at that time I didn't know about the black ancestry. It wasn't obvious to me through him.

Also, his mother says her father is 1/2 black because she says his father (her grandmother) was black. However, it is my understanding that her grandfather's mother was white. So, because her grandfather had black coloring he is referred to as black when technically he was 1/2 white making his son (her father) only 1/4 black. What is especially telling to me about cultural views is that my grandson has at least as much black ancestry in him as he has Irish, yet he will readily be accepted in this country as being of Irish descent no matter his looks or coloring. I guess that is how we view the difference in race vs. ancestrial makeup. I agree it is all quite silly. Also, when discussing percentages relative to his Irish ancestry, it will not at all be affected by his looks, coloring or features. It is simply a matter of math.

Of course, I doubt my grandson will be raised with any sense of being black. Who would give him that sense? His mother certainly doesn't have that sense herself. In fact, neither does her father (my grandson's grandfather) and it was her father's father (my grandson's great-grandfather) that was 1/2 black. He will be raised with a sense of being Irish, though.

Also, I am not sure if from a legal stand, he is technically part black. What is the percentage for such a designation? Does anyone know? I know some determination regarding this has been made in the past for American Indians, but I don't know what the percentage is that gives you legal designation as an American Indian. I think 1/8, but I could be wrong. Whatever has been decided for the American Indian, in my opinion should be the same for all races. However, I think few people who can "pass for white" would want to be designated as black in the US. This isn't the case for American Indians. There seems to be more of a "benefit" to being identified as an American Indian than there is for being identified as black.

Edited: tenaheff on 28th Dec, 2004 - 12:30pm

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I have no idea, but in a couple of sites it says that you need to be one eighth or greater but it mostly depends on how you look like and Government offices will pretty much believe on what you put on the paper. I found this interesting book, maybe you can even borrow it from the library. It's called "Who is black?: one nation's definition" by F. James David and describes how American Society perceives who is black and who is not 'the one drop blood rule', the fact that you need just to have one drop of African American blood in order to be consider 'black'.

Here is a link on his book:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0271021721...849#reader-page

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I will see if I can find this book. I think it would be interesting to read. My grandson certainly has more than one drop in his blood. Probably a lot of people do and just don't know it.

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Oh yeah, I am a firm believer of that. Who knows, all those racial people that go around talking about a particular race, they themselves have blood of that race and they do not know it. Ignorance is bliss.

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I totally agree on that. How can you be even half Jewish when all it means is religion? Do you believe only in half of the bible? It is also annoying that certain characteristics are associated with Judaism. For example - a long nose. How can all the Jews have a long nose, of Judaism is not a race, but a religion. You can choose to believe in what you want to believe in - you are not born Jewish or Christian.

As to Neo's questions, I would regard someone as black only as long as black is the dominating color of his skin.

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I know what you mean but it is interesting to notice that all my Israelites descendants friends and also Jewish from Argentina have certain characteristics that make them unique. I have met several people in the past and as soon as I met them I asked them if they were Israelites descendants and they told me yes. Well..I committed in the past the common mistake to ask them if they are Jewish, since most Israelite descendants from Argentina refer themselves only as Jewish even if they are christians.