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Heber J. Grant

This Sundays lesson is on prayer and I thought this quote goes along nicely with the lesson. Recently I was also thinking about the way people pray in public. I think we can discuss some of the points mentioned at the end of the quote:

"I have had prayers answered. Those answers were most clear when what
I wanted was silenced by an overpowering need to know what God wanted.
It is then that the answer from a loving Heavenly Father can be spoken to
the mind by the still, small voice and can be written on the heart."

(Henry B. Eyring, "Write upon My Heart," Ensign, Nov. 2000, 86)

Points:

1. Why does the CHurch teach to fold arms rather than clasp hands?
2. The resepectful words of Thee, Thy, thou and Thine are not used in Spanish, personalization is emphasized with 'you' being the way prayers are encouraged.
3. In sacrament meeting should we pray for something outside of the meeting or are we praying about that meeting? I have heard various thoughts on this.

Grant J Heber

I will be teaching this lesson in RS this week. I have been asked to sub because our previous teacher has moved. So, I will look forward to any discussion here as it will definately help me with my lesson.

I think we are taught to fold our arms for no particular reason of religious significance. In fact, unless my grandson is with me, I usually don't fold them. I just place them in my lap. It is my understanding that we teach children to fold their arms because it helps to keep them still and reverent.

I find it interesting that in Spanish you use the familiar rather than the formal. So you would say Tu rather then Usted? I think much of what we do in english is really just a result of how the King James version of the Bible is written. We are told it is out of respect, but yet we are encouraged to think of Heavenly Father as having an individual, loving, familial relationship with us. I show respect to my family members, but not by saying Thee and Thou so it is a bit strange. I know that many new converts have problems with this and feel uncomfortable publicly praying because of it. I think this is much like the need to be clean shaven to work in the Temple. We are taught or asked to do so, and so we do so out of respect to those in authority, but I doubt Heavenly Father cares all that much.

In Sacrament Meeting, I think we should pray about any issue that is not specific just to us. I think we should let the Spirit guide us as we do so. Therefore, I think it is good to thank Heavenly Father for the rain (if it is raining) and for what it will mean to our crops or lawns or whatever, thank him for the beautiful sunny day, if that is what we have received. Ask him to watch over the missionaries in the field, etc. Then we should also ask a blessing on the speakers as well as those that are listening. So, to me a good mix is appropriate.

Heber J. Grant Studies Doctrine Mormon

1. I think it comes from the desire to keep "little hands" from being busy. Unfortunately, most of us, as adults, seem to think that it really is part of how we should pray. In scripture, the most often described way of praying is standing with face and hands uplifted. The second most common description is sitting, with face and hands uplifted, then kneeling, then laying face down on the ground. Although the last way seems to be more an effect of the mighty prayer, rather than the way to approach deity.

2. Great question. I don't have any answer, but would like to know.

3. I would say that things that are important to everyone in the meeting, such as asking for rain during a drought, the safety of missionaries in harms way, divine guidance for national and local leaders, etc, would all be appropriate. Of course it is always best to be guided by the spirit.

Grant J Heber

I enjoyed everyone's response and they are good points for Sunday. My understanding of #1 is similar to what you both have said, and it is interesting to note that in body language having folded arms in front of one's body means something different - it is more of a defensive or protective sign rather that one that seems to open communication as in Nighthawk's example of raised hands. Some church's encourage their congregations to pray this way.

For #2, yes 'tu' is used instead of 'usted'. LDS related to me a story about a man in Argentina that always insisted to pray to Heavenly Father in 'usted' and he was looked on as odd because of it since instead of making Him familiar it seemed like he (the man praying) was distancing Him (Heavenly Father) away.

From what I have heard about #3, and this is not referenced, when we are asked to pray at sacrament we should pray for that meeting and those within that meeting, because often people pray for all kinds of things, but they never ask the Lord's presence in the meeting and that he would accept the Administration of His Flesh and Blood that was about to take place. Now I do suppose that we can pray for general happenings and problems that affect the country or Church, but it should only be done after first asking the Lord's Spirit within the meeting.

Grant J Heber

I agree with you 100%. We should always ask for the Spirit to be present. I also think we should ask that our minds and hearts will be open to hear the messages that He want us to receive. If saying the closing prayer, I think we should ask that we will apply the "lessons" or message to our lives.

Heber J. Grant

Sometimes we take for granted that members know the proper way to pray, but Sunday I plan to start out the lesson with a few examples and the basics:

1. When to pray - how it is possible to pray while working
2. When we do not feel like praying who is telling us this
3. How to use Thee, Thy, etc.
4. Proper way to stand in front of the mic, saying the sacrament prayer and all around public prayers where we do not pray for personal needs
5. Prayer in our homes
6. Do our children know how to pray
7. Praying in someone's home - what to say, what not to say

Heber J. Grant

I don't know, I suppose like everybody mentioned before, it keeps little hands from moving around, it also encourages us to be reverent.

I know that for English speakers is hard to understand why we do not use 'Usted'. Now, first let me tell you that there are people who pray to Heavenly Father and say 'Usted' but is not a common thing because it goes against any logic. In Spanish (except you have been born in a super traditional and strict family) you talk to your Dad and Mom of 'Tu', not of 'Usted'. The common sense then tells me that Heavenly Father being also our Father will have to be treated in the same way. When people refers to him as 'Usted' it makes him sound so far away and not as having a personal relationship.

We should let the Spirit guide our prayers.

Heber J. Grant Mormon Doctrine Studies

The problem with this logic though is that in English we don't say thee and thou to our parents either, yet we are supposed to say thee and thou to Heavenly Father. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me?