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Mormon - Oh Thou Meat Eater!

Oh Thou Meat Eater!

On the news you constantly hear problems with meat, chicken flu, mad cow, worm, etc. One cannot help but wonder if this isn't the Lord's vengence upon a world that slaughters hundreds of thousands of animals a day? The Lord commanded that we should eat meat sparingly. What are your feelings?

Here are some quotes related to this topic:

Eater Meat Thou - Mormon

Boy, there have been a number of topics the last couple of days that really make me think before responding. This is one of them.

I love meat. It has traditionally been the largest part of my diet. Recently, I have tried to cut down on the amount of meat I eat.

I know people who argue that verse 13 is saying not to use them only in times of winter, but to use them all the time.

Before you say, look at the punctuation, remember that was added later. Punctuation can affect translation, the question is should it be punctuated in this manner?

I think their point is that verse 12 says the flesh of beasts and fowls are given for our use and thanksgiving and that verse 13 is to clarify that point further. That we should use them regularly and not just in famine or winter.

I am not sure how I feel about this, so I would be interested in others responding with their views.

Edited: tenaheff on 22nd Jan, 2004 - 9:21pm

Mormon - Oh Thou Meat Eater! Studies Doctrine Mormon

Without going to much into this because of time I will recount a story (do not have the quote at hand - sorry) from one of the Prophets (may have been Wilford W.) that said something like: 'If I eat one slice of ham in the month then I believe I kept the Word of Wisdom and ate meat sparingly.'

Eater Meat Thou - Mormon

I think excess in anything (including food) is wrong. Therefore, meat should be used sparingly, in the verses that Tena quoted it is clear to me that God is not pleased with the use of flesh (let's remember that Adam and Eve were vegetarians and all their generations until the flood where all vegetation was dead and there was no option but to eat flesh) have you read how long Adam and their children live in comparison to those after the flood?. Anyhow, Heavenly Father says whoever preaches to not eat meat is not from God, therefore, I think each one of us should use our own judgment, whoever eats meat every day is overdoing it, meat brings so many diceases into our bodies and since our bodies are the Temple of God, will you throw trash to what you consider sacred?.

Eater Meat Thou - Mormon

This is the first I have heard of this. From where does this information come? I have somehow missed this.

Mormon - Oh Thou Meat Eater!

LDS, I'm not picking on you. It just so happens that you are the one that mentioned this, so that's why I'm quoting you. I hear this remark all the time. This idea comes from the following scripture: Doctrine and Covenants 49: 18-21, specifically from verse 18. The problem stems from how verse 18 is written. Most people can't process this phrase

which is verse 18. So, being mentally lazy (and I'm not calling you mentally lazy, I'm just saying that in general we are mentally lazy) and not having a proper grasp of the English language, we turn to the footnotes of the scriptures to see if we can glean any further information that would throw light on the verse. What we find, footnoted to the word forbiddeth is an IE biddeth to abstain, see verse 19.

So, we take off our thinking cap and immediately substitute the word biddeth into verse 18 where the word forbiddeth was before and now the verse makes sense to our weak, lazy minds. We never stop to think that biddeth and forbiddeth mean the exact opposite. We never stop to think that maybe it would be better to dust off the old English grammar book and attempt to figure out what forbiddeth to abstain actually means, instead of putting in a word that means the exact opposite of the word found in the revelation. We never stop to think that verse 15 of the same section uses the same word forbiddeth found in verse 18 and we never logically follow through with this substituting exercise and put the word biddeth in verse 15, too.

Again, I'm not trying to put you down. I've read verse 18 to a retired English teacher and she couldn't process the phrase, either. Then I spelled it out for her and she was able to comprehend the phrase. I'm going to enable email notification of this entry. If anyone replies and wants me to spell it out here in this thread, I'll come back and do so. (It's late and I must get to bed.)

What I will do now, though, is quote both scriptures, verse 15 and verse 18 as they actually appear:

And now I will quote both scriptures and replace the word forbiddeth with the word biddeth and you can see how they read:

As you can see, when we make the substitution, verse 15 no longer works. In actuality, when we make the substitution, verse 18 also no longer works, but it is easier to process verse 18 with the word biddeth than with the word forbiddeth so we just accept that the Lord knew the English language in verse 15 but didn't know it in verse 18, He correctly used the word in 15 but messed up in verse 18.

The truth is that the footnote is an interpolation of men. It is unknown who inserted it, but that it misleads those who read this scripture is apparent to me when I talk about this verse with people and ask their opinion of what it means. No one can process the phrase.

So, without spelling it out to you, or any of you, I ask, what is the meaning of verse 18? What does "forbiddeth to abstain from meats" mean? Hint, the word biddeth means the opposite of the word forbiddeth so if you can process the phrase "biddeth to abstain from meats," then the phrase "forbiddeth to abstain from meats" means the exact opposite. And so I ask, what does "forbiddeth to abstain from meats" mean?

Tenaheff: Verses 12, 13, 14 and 15 of D&C 89 are two sentences. When you take both sentences together, because the scriptures must harmonize, the opinion of those people doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It doesn't matter whether you remove the comma or not, those words in 13 must harmonize with the words in 15. The more I talk to people about the scriptures, the more it seems that we have not learned proper English grammar. This is understandable, of course. I found studying English grammar quite boring when I was in school. But now I see the value in it especially as I come across so many people, even latter-day saints, who can't seem to understand simple English when it is written in plainness. All that is necessary is to apply the rules of the English language to the revelation and there is only one way to understand it. If you throw away those rules, you can interpret the passages any way you want, but this is also known as "wresting the scriptures to your destruction." Everyone has their free agency, so if they want to ignore the rules of English and make an independent clause dependent, or a modifier an independent clause, or throw out all the coordinating connectives, that's their prerogative, but all that does is make them "a law unto themselves."

I suggest you tell your friends to study up on English a bit more before they start arguing over the scriptures. Or, perhaps, they could argue the scriptures in front of an English teacher, then the teacher can correct their errors before they start arguing in front of the general public and expose their ignorance to those around them.

Mormon - Thou Meat Eater!

This statement seems in line with your introduction post (You are lucky one of the bots or myself did not get there first to reply) First off, no one here is arguing, this is a discussion board. It is fine to prove a point, but pointing to someone's academic involvement has no basis for their own opinions and feelings. It will serve you well to note that LDS_forever's second language is English and she is a vegetarian, but I am sure she will be here to reply to you... soon. Are you a vegetarian? There is another key point here that we must look towards... the manuals and books that interpret these scriptures... are those who wrote and approved them also in er of the English language or is it a matter of interpretation.

Mormon - Thou Meat Eater! Mormon Doctrine Studies

So the scripture above is actually saying not to forbid one from being a vegetarian. I had always read it wrong.


Well, I don't forbid anyone to eat any particular way. Myself, I am a big meat eater. In fact tonight we are having a High Priest social and everyone will be bringing their own meat. I agree it is not a healthy way to go, but I haven't caught the vision yet of eating meat sparingly.

But I did plant a garden this spring for the first time. Maybe that will help me get in the mood for more veggies and less meat.

Edited: gaucho on 26th Mar, 2004 - 10:39pm