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Maybe We Are Not Worthy Mormons?

Maybe We Are Not Worthy?

I was just thinking about our many Discussions here about ordinances that once were and are now no longer available or restricted to a few. I am thinking... Maybe We Are Not Worthy?

I mean that sounds too simple right?

However, think about it as a Church and not as a few... how many in the Church will be willing to accept hearing about these Topics, let alone accept them? Not many at all.

The Members are very self-righteous. Look at Knowltonutah as a very small isolated example. He may seem obscure in his methods, but he represents a large part of the LDS population that are just like that - blind.

When you consider Bishops and Stake Presidents that abuse for years and yet give out Temple Recommends to others until they are caught you have to wonder how many of the people they interviewed were even worthy?

Don't take what I am saying as a cop-out, I am really pondering it... Maybe We Are Not Worthy? Maybe the talent has been given to those who are worthy.

Mormons Worthy Not We Maybe

Elder David R. Stone Of the Seventy
Zion in the Midst of Babylon

I tend to believe that, as a Church, we are becoming less and less worthy, with pockets of stronger saints here and there. It's my opinion that many of the changes to temple ordinances, procedures, church regulations, and etc., were influenced by the members who complained that they were uncomfortable with certain things. The new regulation that men cannot teach primary children alone in a classroom is evidence of societal influences, not because of any wrongdoing on the part of worthy priesthood men.

I also tend to believe that, in general, saints in countries other than the U.S. are stronger and more worthy. Obviously there are exceptions to every circumstance. My experience with Americans as Christians is that they are generally lazier and more apathetic, perhaps even more deceitful, than Christians of other countries.

I'm cheerfully willing to be wrong in these assumptions. I would hope better of any group of followers of Christ. But from my own experience and the anecdotal evidence of others, it seems that we are definitely slipping into a state of unworthiness.

All in my own opinion, of course.
Roz

Maybe We Are Not Worthy Mormons? Studies Doctrine Mormon

That is right. It is very similar to when the people pressed Moses for a bill of divorcement. No such thing existed, yet he was 'forced' into having it because the people were not worthy enough to make marriage work. I believe this is why we lost Plural Marriage, and the United Order. In fact, I believe the United Order has a stronger tie than that of Plural Marriage for one reason - the United Order represents a true Zion. However, by not accepting it they basically were saying "We do not want Zion". Maybe the Church today is not really embracing Babylon as our good friend likes to say, but in fact giving the Members what they are able to abide?

Another simplistic example is the "Should we drink Coke issue". The Church is not going to press on that, but Kimball did, and those that caught the vision of why he said what he did about that and chocolate will gain the blessing. Those who do not want to catch on will stick only with the letter of the law. The Lord sees in secret.

The other thing I was thinking is based on a lot of stories in the Book of Mormon where the Nephites were captured or controlled by the Lamanites and not allowed to pray or worship and they were told to do so in their hearts. I believe in like manner we are to acknowledge these things in our heart until one day when we are free of our oppression and able to practise openly.

Mormons Worthy Not We Maybe

Some really good points here, and quite in line with my understanding of Isaiah. In fact, I am reading a book titled Scriptures of the Last Days where the author, using Avraham Gileadi's new translation of Isaiah, shows what Isaiah is talking about.

So far, I am only in the first chapter of Isaiah. And already I found some areas where I need to change my attitudes. But what is particularly interesting is the condemnation in Isaiah for the members of the Church.

Here is an example, using the KJV Isaiah.

Since Isaiah is writing to Israel, the first question is - who is Israel? When he speaks of the Jews, he uses these words: Jews, Judah. But most of the time, he speaks of Israel or Ephraim. Who is Israel and Ephraim? Why, it is the Church.

The first chapter is speaking directly to Israel, as God lists the various ways that Israel (the Church) has rebelled against him.

Now, when I read this, it really struck me hard. You will see why in a moment.

God speaks of sacrifices, oblations, incense, new moons and sabbaths, and feasts. He even talks about simple prayers. So, what is he talking about? All of these things were the normal worship patterns of ancient Israel. So, what are OUR normal worship patterns?

Sacrament meetings. Sunday School. Priesthood meetings. Relief Society. Meetings for this. Meetings for that. Time away from home for meetings. Time away from service - for meetings. Got someone in the ward who needs food desperately? Have a meeting. So what if it takes two weeks to get around to getting food to that family. It is more important to have that meeting first.

Perhaps there is even something to think about concerning Temple worship. The scriptures tell us to seek after, and perform ordinances our own dead. There are no scriptures telling us to just do the work for anyone and everyone who has ever lived. But this is only a suspicion on my part.

But what really struck me is the last line of verse 15. Why does God disregard all of our worship? Because our hands are covered in blood.

Now, I have never killed anyone. I doubt that any of us active on this board have ever killed anyone.

But we have supported killers. We have not worked hard enough to stop the killing. And this is what really bothers me.

I fully supported the US going in to Afghanistan and Iraq. I still think it was the right thing to do. However, that support MIGHT be wrong, based upon verse 15. I participated in the first Gulf War. Supporting that action might have been wrong.

I still think that these actions, based purely upon the telestial world view, of protecting the safety and security of the nation state, were right. However, from the terrestial point of view, it becomes suspect. From the celestial point of view, it may be completely wrong. I am not sure, at all, now.

But what is very interesting is that based upon the 12th Article of Faith, the members of the church usually fully support our political parties in their actions. We don't really do that much to protest and fight against injustice. In fact, our leaders have bragged upon that fact, pointing out that our members don't march in protests, perform civil disobedience, or other forms of intense political speech. We write a few letters. Perhaps talk in forums. But we don't go out and fight for what is right.

So, we end up with a lot of members who say, "Abortion is bad, but it really is up to the choice of the mother. After all, it is her body, and the law allows for it."

We get some of us (like me) who support the Republicans in the violent actions taken against some countries, while those who support the Democrats scream about it. When Bill Clinton, a Democrat, took action in Bosnia, the Republicans screamed about it, and the Democrats supported him.

We usually support stricter penalties for drug users, but aren't surprised when high level drug lords get away clean.

Anyway, the whole book of Isaiah condemns us in many ways. It condemns us, the members of the Church, and it condemns our leaders, both political and ecclesiastical. Look back at verse 10.

Here we (the Church) are compared to Sodom and Gomorrah. Note, in particular, the reference to the leaders.

So, are we not worthy? Most likely not. We eat, drink, and marry, never considering that we might not be in complete compliance with what God has revealed to us. If we delve beyond the Sunday School and Priesthood manuals, we become suspect. If we teach what Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, and John Taylor taught, we risk excommunication.

In fact, if we use the excuse that we aren't worthy as being the reason that we don't learn and practice the things that were restored in the 1800s, then we really are in trouble. Because that very excuse (which I HAVE heard used by leaders), is the greatest condemnation imaginable both against the members as well as the leaders of the Church. It means that we don't really even care about those important principles. If the leaders aren't urging us to prepare and receive those principles and practices into our lives, then they are only letting us slide into oblivion.

I guess that we are unworthy of the great blessings promised in the Restoration. Just as Isaiah has shown us.

Mormons Worthy Not We Maybe

JB said:

We can never be totally "worthy" in the eyes of the Lord, so I do not think it is the reason for certain ordinances/doctrines that are no longer available. Actually, this is the reasoning of a lot of our leaders and members of our Church when they cannot explain certain topics, the "perfection" the "worthiness" issue always plays part of the excuse, after all, it is easy to say and there is no room for more digging on the matter.

I just think is a matter of doing things to be accepted by the world. I can make a list of the things the Church has changed their views on or adapted to please the world and our other fellow Christian denominations. It's all about image. After all, we do have a pretty "dak" history if you want to put it that way.

We are becoming more and more an administrative body than a spiritual body and is putting us further and further from God. As Nighthawk pointed out, we have meetings for almost anything...even meetings to discuss what our next meeting will be about. We are concerned about figures, filling forms, certificates, activities...yet the big issues concerning our Salvation are left in second place. Yet, the leaders talked and talked about the importance of our families and them being our first responsibility and that leaders should be careful in how they plan activities or give too many callings...yet then the Church makes for instance more room for activities in the RS because they are "necessary". I do not see having weekly and monthly activities as a necessity in Relief Society or any other organization. I do see it as a necessity activities that would develop love and compassion towards others and towards our own families. To be honest, sometimes I feel we are becoming more and more like Baptists, "whatever it goes, goes".

It deeply concerns me that we are not encouraged to study the deeper doctrines, but the opposite, we are scolded if we go too deep, after all we can become "Apostate" by learning the same things our Prophets have taught in the past. Again, everything is about leaving the members in the comfort zone of their sacrament meetings, reading their little manual on Sundays, smiling to each other and basically saying: All is well in Zion!

I am seeing this change taking place so rapidly that I wonder where are we going to end up 10, 20 years from now?

Worthiness? No, I do not think is a matter of worthiness. It's just a matter of once again trying to look for sympathetic eyes of the world and making whatever changes are necessary in doctrine, if that would affect our image of "Good Christians". We once were a peculiar people, I do not think we are anymore. I wish we could have the zeal of our early members and stand for what is true no matter the circumnstances without being afraid of getting excommunicated.

Maybe We Are Not Worthy Mormons?

I'm just curious....is this a regulation given by the First Presidency? Because we haven't received any such regulations in Norway.

I've been thinking about this topic fairly often. Worthiness has been one of the thoughts. But I also think we see a pattern that God changes the messenger as the audience changes. Changing the messenger does not necessarily change the message.

Maybe We Not Worthy Mormons

That topic is more fully discussed here: Primary Presidency

Well that is one of the points of Discussion here: 'The Prophet Said So...'

Oh, but the message has changed a lot over the years. In the olden days, if one were to compare talks of the Brethren to the ones now you will see a marked change in the message. In keeping with the Topic I am trying to say that this change in message may have to do with worthiness as a people, not individually. A very good example is LDS_forever's Thread about going back to the basics. The Members in our country are so backward in their willingness to study the Gospel that now others (who may be studying faithfully) will have to pay the price by hearing basic Doctrines thought over and over again with New Members. The same may be true for the Church, there are so many unworthy that others pay the price for it.

Maybe We Not Worthy Mormons Mormon Doctrine Studies

I have noticed and have heard of many members becoming complaisant. We must stay vigilant in the gospel... meaning never tire of learning and applying what is learned. If things have been changed I'm sure it's for a good reason. Either the men who change these things are unworthy and change them without the direction of God. Or they are worthy and make these changes with the Father's guidance. My wife and I are fairly new to the church, and I crave for the knowledge we have access to. If anything changes from now until I pass from this life... I will pray about it, and have faith that in as much as I live by the precepts taught in the church I will stand guiltless before the Savior.

Rather off topic, but... I will say that changing of doctrine does make missionary work hard, if someone who has done there home work brings this up. I mean how would you answer them, "we're no longer worthy"?