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Integrating Science And Religion

Deeply religious people usually assume that since the bible is correct, it immediately means that evolution cannot be. Their mistake is that evolution does not contrast the bible - evolution is just the term for gradual change. Natural selection, using evolution as an explanation for the varying species, or as a proof that Earth was created way longer ago than 7,000 years does contrast. But couldn't Earth have bean created 7,000 years ago and evolution is occurring, not as an explanation of current variations of species, but of future ones? Is there a way of integrating the two, or do you have to make a choice?

Religion Science Integrating

First of all, I agree with the definition of evolution being a constantly changing process, but there is a difference between the definition of evolution and the theory of evolution. And yes, I agree that evolution is occurring all the time. What I disagree with are most of the theories of evolution. I did some research on the internet and there are hundreds of theories of evolution. As far as how old the earth is consider this:

The reason I believe that the earth was made somewhere around 7,000 years ago is because in the Bible it says:

and this:

This is why I believe the earth is somewhere around 7,000 years old. That belief does not coincide with all of the known theories of evolution that I know. I have a strong testimony of the bible. Do you know what a testimony is? It is what a person believes, a solemn declaration of knowledge, and an open acknowledgement. It is gained through study, experience, and in my case, prayer, and also from the experiences of others. So this is why I believe in the Bible's version of the creation of the earth, and not man's fallible theories and assumptions. There is just one more story I want to share with you. Now I know that you are not LDS, and this is from a magazine put out by my church called the Ensign, but I thought it would demonstrate my point of view.

Edited: dawnofthenew on 12th Jan, 2005 - 1:29am

Integrating Science And Religion Beliefs Religious General

The bible, as you said, does not support the reasoning of the age of Earth. But, I think it does support the theory of evolution, and survival of the fittest. And I have my evidence as well.

Noah's ark - what happens in the story? Humans have gone bad, and god does not like it. That in itself suggests that if a child is born by two humans, god cannot control how he will grow up to be. Then, what does god do? chooses a select few (Noah's family) which he believes are the best behaving human beings tells them to protect themselves, and brings in a disaster that will kill all the other, bad, human beings. That is a perfect example of natural selection/survival of the fittest! Noah's family have the best characteristics, so he introduces a downpour which challenges those that do not have those characteristics, leading for only Noah's family to survive, thus making the human species evolve.

Religion Science Integrating

The problem is that so very many people view science as a religion, or a replacement for religion. Science is a method of discovering physical properties and laws. It is a regimented, rigorous method designed to eliminate the least likely explanations for events.

So, I go back to my original statement. Many people view science and treat it, as a religion, that provides the answers to the important questions of life. However, it can only provide theories. It is not even particularly good at providing "facts." It definitely does not provide truths.

Consider evolution, since it has already been addressed a little bit. There are two major concepts within the overall theory of evolution. Those two major concepts are macroevolution, and microevolution.

Microevolution is as close to being "proven" as a theory can be. It is the explanation of variation within a species. The ideas within it are exactly how farmers breed cattle to develop certain characteristics, such as lower fat content within the meat, or higher milk production. It is also how so many breeds of dogs and cats have been developed over time.

Macroevolution, on the other hand, is about as strong a theory as the "flat earth" theory. This is what most people think of when they think of evolution. This is the idea that different species have developed through the actions of evolution. While there is superficial evidence for this concept, there is no firm evidence, anywhere, of a single species splitting into two different species. There is no historical evidence, and scientists have been trying for decades to induce evolutionary advances in such creatures as fruit flies, who go through several generations within a single year.

There is no proof at all to support macroevolution (that I have ever heard of).

On the other hand, in what seems to be a very stable field of scientific inquiry, astrophysics, major theories are developed and discarded constantly. While many people accept such things as black holes, brown dwarfs, etc, many of the popular things are really only theories that have not been proven yet. Even Einstein's theories of relativity have not really been "proven", they have only had supporting evidence shown for them.

As more information comes to light about various things, I believe that the "chasm" between science and religion will really diminish, rather than grow.

Religion Science Integrating

Now, I'm not trying to be picky about small details here, but I do have these comments.

I believe that evolution does exist pertaining to God's creation's as I said, but only in the definition of the word evolution, that things are in a constant state of evolving, in my mind explaining current and future variations of species. I do not subscribe to any theories of evolution if they are man's hypothesis' not acknowledging God's hand in all these things.

Where did you get this idea? There are many Christian people who are scientists and agree with theories of evolution, particularly the one's that acknowledge God as creator of all things, including more evolved species than the one's before.

That is true. I believe everyone is given a gift: free agency, or the right and ability to think, act, believe, hope, feel, and make decisions in their life. I feel if God wanted to, He could control what everyone does, but this life is for learning, growing, and learning to choose for ourselves, so He does not.

I believe in natural selection, yes God allows the strongest and best to survive. I don't feel this was a good example of natural selection, though. Noah and his family were chosen to survive. Even though they had the best characteristics as you put it, they didn't save themselves. God did. He chose them as the ones to carry on the human race, and He would only want the most righteous. They didn't survive, they were saved by God.

God telling Noah how to build an ark, what to put in it, and when to get in it is not a natural process to me, rather God's selection of the most obedient and most faithful in keeping the Commandments.

God also said that he would never do that again. (Genesis 9) It was a one time event, not a process. Sorry for the rant.

Offtopic but, Can you tell that I just figured out the italics button?? Yay for me! Just kidding!

Integrating Science And Religion

Great topic Smudge! Here is what I think...

Since the bible says God created Adam and Eve and placed them in a garden, I don't believe you can take the theory of evolution as it is believed today (monkey to man) and ever reconcile it with the Bible.

As has already been expressed by Nighthawk, some evolution does exist like the fact that humans no longer need an appendix so some people are born without them or with very small ones. Or, how we don't need wisdom teeth and so our mouths seem to be smaller now so the teeth need to be pulled for most of us because they just don't fit. However, that isn't the same as changing from monkey to human.

I think the evidence that the earth is so much older than it is could have an explanation. When God created the earth, I do not believe it was created from nothing. He gathered matter and formed the earth. Is it not possible some of this matter came from planets that had existed billions of years ago and had been destroyed some way. Some of that fossil evidence could be then found here on earth. To many, this isn't a practical explanation, but to me, it is just as likely as the possibility I evolved from a monkey...

Integrating Science Religion

Well, the downpour can be called a natural process, although god triggered it. And you can think of it this way: only Noah and his family had the necessary qualities to survive the downpour and those qualities were faith in god.

Usually evolution is associated with the idea of ape to man like Tenaheff said. But that's just one conclusion of (macro)evolution. Wolf to dog is also one. but even if those didn't occur because of not enough time on earth, it does not mean it cannot happen in the future. For example, for humans to evolve into a different species of super-faithful humans or something of the sort.

Integrating Science Religion General Religious Beliefs

Science and religion cannot be mutually exclusive, because they are two very different processes. Religion is based on faith. To have faith is to believe in and act upon unseen, unmeasurable, and perhaps seemingly unreasonable beings, events, and/or forces.

Science, on the other hand, can only competently explain the measurable, the concrete, the testable, and the logical. It is a process of testing quantifiable hypotheses wighinductive and deductive reasoning. Darwinian evolution is no more scientifically measurable than the efficacy of repentance. I know carbon dating is used, but we don't have any carbon from 2 million years ago with a freshness date stamped on the bottom, and thus we cannot compare with certainty.

Evolution is a natural process that occurs within species. We are taller than our ancestors a few generations back. We have evolved psychologically. Our bodies naturally become immune to certain viruses we have previously had. However, to say that humans evolved from microscopic organisms is against logic, and aginst the plan of God. We can quantify and observe the effects of evolutionary processes in modern times, but nothing in science can disprove the truth of God.