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Lds Views On Cain

I started this thread inspired by SteveB who showed interest in discussing the issue of Cain from an LDS perspective. The Bible give few references to Cain but Latter-Day Scripture and revelation gives more light into who really was/is Cain.

From an LDS perspective, who do you think is Cain and what scriptures references you can give about it?.

Cain Views Lds

LDSForever... Thank you for creating this board. From what I gather from other posts about Cain from the LDS perspective is that he is more than what I read in the Bible.

The Bible in Genesis states he is the first born of Adam and Eve and the first murderer. It briefs his attitude and conversation with God regarding what he did, his opportunity to repent, his punishment, and the mercy God showed him. It tells that he tried to bring to God an offering by his own works and not by God's instruction (that is called iniquiity) and God's warning when God rejected his offering. Beyond that... The Bible is silent.

It appears, though, that this is a minor doctrine and a subject of little interest to LDS since I never heard about it in Gospel Doctrine Class or Priesthood.

This ruling over Satan thing, though, is not stated in the Bible that I can find. If what I am assuming about LDS belief correctly, a lot of this Cain business has to do with the defining nature of 'spirits'. I understand that LDS believe that what are called angels, demons, God, seraphim, Cherubs, and other creatures are just other names of human spirits in various states as opposed to what I read in the Bible as these sentients being distinctive and varient from human nature. If I am wrong or off a bit in this assessment, correct me.

I still am curious about Cain 'ruling' over Satan. If you have a good source site, let me know. I did find something by some folks in a search but those sounded really way out there from my perspective.

Lds Views On Cain Studies Doctrine Mormon

Steve, first of all let me tell you that I will give you some LDS scriptures references that give us more light about who is Cain. There are quotes of past Church leader who state what this mark of Cain could be, but should be taken as opinions because it is NOT official LDS doctrine.

In the Bible we know that Cain and Abel presented an offering to the Lord, and that the Lord was pleased with Abel's offering but He was not pleased with Cain's offering. When I was a little girl and I read that on the Bible, I used to question whether Abel was God's favourite because really the Bible does not mention why God was displeased with Cain's offering and in that perspective, He seems to be unfair. But in the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price chapter 5 starting from verse 17, it says:

Edited: LDS_forever on 17th Jul, 2007 - 5:43pm

Cain Views Lds

LDSForever...

When I was a kid, I thought as you did also"¦ like"¦ "Gee, God, what did Cain do wrong?!" Seemed unfair to me, too, until I thought"¦ "Hey! Why did Cain get mad?!" My mother always used to tell me when I would make excuses about something I did in disobedience or in just plain orneriness"¦ she"d say"¦ "You know better than that!" And truly I did. We all do. I could reason it all out but when I got caught, I had a choice"¦ make it right"¦ or stay mad. In Cain's case, it is apparent that he knew better. That he didn't do it like God had instructed. God gave him a chance to do it again and this time the way it was supposed to be done, but Cain said in his heart"¦ "My way or the highway" (that's what iniquity is)"¦ unfortunately"¦ when I don't get things right with God in the light of God's Truth and hold to my own little 'sacred cows""¦ I get touchy and angrier and see those who obey as threats. This was what I see as Cain doing. Sin grows in me"¦ if I don't deal with it before and in the presence of God by faith and obedience"¦ then I lose control"¦ like I see Cain doing. Another thing I noticed was that Cain was relying in his own devices instead of coming before the Lord in Faith. There is a whole bunch of stuff regarding the place and time to bring the offering and what to bring. It is not on the surface but it is all through Genesis and the rest of the Bible.

Offtopic but, I am not avoiding the reference you gave"¦ well"¦ hmmm"¦ yeah"¦ I am"¦ Gee"¦ Do I know better than to make a statement like that?! Yeah. So that is why this sidebar"¦ and the question"¦ where did the book of Moses come from? It appears to me that this is a rewrite of the Genesis account with several aspects I have questions about.

Cain Views Lds

This topic is about the LDS perspective, SteveB, and of course we're going to use LDS references. You can have full access to them on the Church's website (www.lds.org), including footnotes, references, and history. The Book of Moses came from selections of Joseph Smith's revealed translation of the book of Genesis. I wouldn't call it a "rewrite," but revealed scripture. Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Offtopic but, SteveB said: QUOTE It appears, though, that this is a minor doctrine and a subject of little interest to LDS since I never heard about it in Gospel Doctrine Class or Priesthood. Are you a former member? Or were you just visiting? If it was a topic you wished to discuss, generally each book of scripture is studied on a year-to-year rotation, and topics are not chosen at random each Sunday. Perhaps you visited during the year the Book of Mormon was on schedule, or the New Testament.

Edited: FarSeer on 30th Apr, 2005 - 10:05pm

Are you a former member? Or were you just visiting? If it was a topic you wished to discuss, generally each book of scripture is studied on a year-to-year rotation, and topics are not chosen at random each Sunday. Perhaps you visited during the year the Book of Mormon was on schedule, or the New Testament.

Lds Views On Cain

Farseer

Just visited... never was a member. Thanks for site reference. I'll check it out.

Offtopic but, QUOTE Book of Moses came from selections of Joseph Smith's revealed translation of the book of Genesis I don't know what a 'revealed' translation is.

As for this reference regarding Cain... there's a lot here that I see as incongruant to the account in Genesis and other Biblical references... Maybe I'm wrong in referring to Joseph Smith's rendition of the story of Cain as a rewrite of Genesis account. More accurately, I would say a commentary... though I find some of the opinions he set forth as un-biblical... but then again... he was entitled to his opinion as you are and I. Sometimes commentary can be assumed as doctrine when it was not meant to be.

I don't know what a 'revealed' translation is.

Lds Views Cain

Offtopic but, As LDS members, we believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that he had tools, keys, and gifts (as well as commandments) given to him from God to translate. He was not writing commentary or giving his opinion, but translating and restoring parts of what was lost from the scriptures. But that's another topic.

What do you find incongruent with the account in Genesis or other biblical references? I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Please keep in mind that this topic is specifically about the LDS perspective on Cain, and we don't want to debate whether or not you believe it or accept it but to discuss the LDS view. Thanks.

Lds Views Cain Mormon Doctrine Studies

The whole theory about Cain ruling over Satan is more speculation than anything else. It comes from a few different points. As a "Son of Perdition" Cain is going to "outer darkness". Since he came to this Earth he will have a body, and Satan will not. According to tradition, this will give him a one-up on Satan. Secondly, the speculation comes from the following verse as was posted above:

And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads, and by the living God, that they tell it not; for if they tell it, they shall surely die; and this that thy father may not know it; and this day I will deliver thy brother Abel into thine hands.

And Satan sware unto Cain that he would do according to his commands. And all these things were done in secret.

According to what we know, Satan didn't actually DO anything in regards to the murder of Abel, so some began to speculate that Satan meant he would do anything Cain ever wanted because he was so desperate to get Cain to commit murder to start destroying Heavenly Father's plan (who knows why, maybe he thought murder would ruin more people than anything else, maybe he thought it would hurt the plan that was laid out by who was supposed to come through the lineage of Abel if he'd lived, etc) that he also sware an oath unto Cain that he would obey Cain...basically a plea of "I'll do anything, give you all my power and even be YOUR servant if you'll just DO THIS for me!" type of desperation. As I said, it is speculation and tradition on our part to assume that Cain will rule over Satan mainly because of that verse, and because he'll have a body (one-up on Satan). Why early leaders thought such an oath would be binding...who knows. After all...if Satan is the father of lies, who is to say he wasn't lying just then? Maybe there is something about ancient Oaths or powers in the universe that made such a vow unbreakable. We just don't know, but that is where the speculation came from, and it is TRADITION to believe Cain will rule over Satan, but again, not necessarily Official Doctrine. You will find that a lot...Traditions, unofficial interpretations, and assumptions/speculation being used in OR against the church as if it it were official. Because of this our leaders rarely speculate anymore, at least not as much as they did in the old days (ended right around the time of Bruce R McConkie). They say they are trying to avoid misinterpretation, and misunderstandings (which LDS enemies claim as official and try to use against us) that are so frequently caused from the past. In some ways, avoiding speculation by our leaders recently is good...but boy do I miss the good ol' days of speculation on doctrines. They had good insights!

Anyway, hope that helps clear up where the "Cain will rule over Satan" stuff came from. I wouldn't be shocked if it's true, but I won't hold my breath either as it's not technically official. If you have more questions, by all means, keep asking...Cain was kind of an obsession of mine for a while because of the so called "Curse of Cain" that I found and interest in when I served a mission in Haiti (all black people) and I am working on compiling an in-depth book about everything regarding it (the "curse" and blacks/priesthood ban thing).

Edited: Tidejwe on 10th Apr, 2006 - 8:36am