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Etiquette Of A Desperate Man

First time I post in this thread so bear with me. I saw the movie "Batman Begins" and in it was a very serious question "When a man becomes desperate what would he do?" like when a man has no money or food and he has to steal some or even hurt somebody to get it does it make him a bad man(or woman) I think he is not but I wanted to ask you all what you think.

take in consideration
What makes a man desperate?
What will a man do when he is desperate?
When do the means overcomes the goal(or the other way around)?

Man Desperate Of Etiquette

I am not sure what your main focus is here. You are asking how a man can lose a sense of etiquette in desperate times? I believe this is more of a study of psychology? In any case, if we are focusing on etiquette then it is a simple deduction that the pyramid of needs shows that safety / food / drink can all make you do iratic things. If you are desperately hungry and a truck is passing with food, then you may likely hop on for the taking, wether it is legal or not. You can easily see this by watching some of the poverty stricken countries when food arrives. Desperation cancels out inhibition and it is your mental inhibitions which of course establishes etiquette, thus when it is gone you are liable to do anything. Isn't there a saying "desperate love"... and at that point, people will even kill if they have to.

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What makes a man desperate? Basic needs not met, and then gone severe. I think most people will still retain some semblance of their humanity and ettiquette, if you can call it that, manners, personal responsibility, even in some hard circumstances. I think those circumstances have to be quite severe before desperation sets in to force a person to do something they wouldn't normally even consider, such as theft or murder, to alleviate their circumstances.

What will a man do when he's desperate? It depends on the man and what makes him desperate. Is it he alone who is suffering? Or is it also his wife and small children? I think men and women both will become more desperate when their loved ones are suffering or threatened than if it is themselves only. Perhaps we've all seen or heard about acts of desperation, varying by degrees of suffering or need.

When do the means overcomes the goal(or the other way around)? Again, it depends on the degree of desperation, and the person involved. Some folks in similar situations wouldn't act on that desperation, while others would. This is one of the things psychologists study - what makes one person break in a set of circumstances, but not another in the same? Does that make one mentally ill, or merely different? Who measures the circumstances or judges the actions of desperation, and what rules of conduct apply?

Man Desperate Of Etiquette

From Wikipedia: "Etiquette, also known as decorum, is the code that governs the expectations of social behavior, the conventional norm."

So are we speaking about norms of social behaviour that the society expects from a desperate person?

Tips for a Desperately hungry:
All rules of Desperate Hunger manners are made to avoid being caught or getting chocked on what you're trying to swallow at the moment.
To let anyone see what you have in your mouth is careless to the extreme because your trophey can be taken away from you, so is to make a noise.

The first impression that we make upon others depends entirely upon what we wear and how we wear it.
The Desperately Hungry who knows how to wear clothes, gets more.
It has always been the rule not to wear too many jewels while going for a food hunt, because public display of jewels on supposedly starving body is considered plainly dumb.

Since jewerly is after all ornamentation, glass makes quite an effective trimming as gems - make it sure to always wear some broken glass in your breast pocket (your purse, if you're a Desperately Hungry Lady).

One important accessory for convincing Desperate Hungry Clothing is a pair of plain sensible shoes, designed to give proper support to the foot. High-heeled, fancy sandals and slippers not only are inappropriate and extravagant, but ruinous to any food that must be ready any moment to run and fast.

Man Desperate Of Etiquette

No, actually that isn't what we're talking about, and you've given a flippant answer to the questions he's asking, in my opinion. Delve a little deeper. What do you think about the questions asked?

Etiquette Of A Desperate Man

My first reply was, actually, meant to be a joke. I do hope it is obvious from it

Okay, now if you want a serious answer.

I find a combination of "etiquette" and "desperate" quite contradicting.

"Etiquette" being a code, a set of rules, implies that people act in sane mind and more or less cold head, that they are able to realize what exactly they are doing. It means people accept these rules and try to follow them because those who do not follow them are considered to be, at least of lower standart of behaviour.

"Desperate" is a word to describe the mental and psychological condition that is far from being cold headed and cool-blooded. Insane, obsessed, affected, crazy (with), are the words of the same semantic field if not syonyms.

You cannot expect a crazy (even if temporarily) person to follow rules. Or rather, you cannot set rules for crazy (if even temporarily) person. It is like trying to tie a polka dot bow on a hurricaine.

Besides, etiquette bears in itself something positive, the idea of how thing shoudl be done.

Like there is an office etiquette, a party etiquette, I'm sure they have their etiquette in a thief's den, too.
But there is no asylum etiquette. Not because the place is bad. Simply because people there because of their mental condition are not able to even get the idea of it. I do admit each of them can have his/her own moral code, but since the swing in their personalities and attitude to the world is so really huge, this code cannot be the same to all of them.

There is an etiquette of war, but there is no etiquette of massacre.

An etiquette of courting, even of sex (can imagine it), but no etiquette of rape.

It's because, as it seems to me, the latter things (massacre and rape) are not done in cool blood and calculating mind. Well, normally, at least.

"Desperate" person is a person at the edge. Ready for everything. And exactly this "everything" drives any idea of rules or codes of behaviour close to zero.

One observation more:
I think etiquette is something set and artificial. It has very little if nothing to do with feelings. Originally, its rules were dictated with common sense or chivalry. While being desperate - it is all on feelings.

If we take our hungry person, as an example.
The fact he stole a bun from the baker's but not from say an old woman, although it would be much easier and less risk to get caught - are we talking about etiquette here? Is there a rule "if you are hungry, it is okay to steal from a shop but it is bad to steal from a poor old woman"? No. Well, maybe about a thief's one, though. "It's low to steal from old and children". The rule for general public sounds as "Don't steal" period.

But our hungry person is desperate and he is deaf to rules for general public. He is deaf for any sort of etiquette. What he has, is only his own moral code, his ideas of good and bad what are in his flesh and blood, and are different for different people.

That is why I think we cannot speak about any "etiquette" for desperate situaitons. There is no such thing as etiquette in this case.
We only can speak about stoppers and what creates them.

Now to the questions:

What makes a man desperate? -
Impossibility to achieve your goal, especially if this goal is important to you.
It can be important in physical sense (our hungry person whose goal is simply to eat) or on the level of mentality and feeling (for instance, this feeling when you realize all your attempts to talk to her fail? That's what I call despair).

What will a man do when he is desperate? -
Can't speak on behalf of all mankind, but personally I can go very far.
Still - and here we are getting back to stoppers - there are some of them, too. Depends on the case. I think in general it is how it works for everybody.
Only for different people the stoppers are different.

When do the means overcomes the goal (or the other way around)?
I understand it as in is there a situation when the goal can be achieved by any means? Might be mistaken here.
Any specifications, please?

Edited: Klausse on 26th Feb, 2006 - 1:12pm

Etiquette Of Desperate Man

Klausse, your first and second reply were fine to me, I believe it is up to Marve to clarify the relationship of posting such a topic on the Romance Board. For me, what a man does in desperation is usually based on a state of mind, but I will wait for him to clarify, if he does.

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I have no problem with either of Klausse's posts and about specifying my last question you got to understand it is hard for me too to specify them and answer those questions (that is kind of why I asked them) but I got to say I'm happy with the answers so far. Oh and please try to move you hypothetical situations away from hunger.