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Grace & Works

In the Bible it often mentions both 'Grace' and 'Works' - what are we to understand by these mentioned terms and how do they affect each other or us?

Romans 11:6
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Works and Grace

James tells us that without works, faith is dead. But the discrepancy comes when Paul, in nearly every letter of his, tells us that we are saved by grace, by faith in Jesus Christ.

There cannot be both grace and works in my opinion. Either heaven is gained by one or the other. If we are saved by grace, then nothing we can do saves us. No amount of good deeds can get us to heaven, or there would be tons of `good` people going to heaven under that pretense.

If works is what saves us, then the man on the cross next to Jesus in Luke that calls to Jesus could not be saved. If salvation required works, then works would have been absent and Jesus would have said sorry and so long to the thief.

The two teachings in the bible collide and leave you guessing which is right. Most early teachers taught works with belief. Paul brought the idea of salvation by grace alone into the picture.

Grace & Works Revealed Bible The

My point of view is that while grace is a gift, there are certain things that we must do to qualify for the gift. That is, there are certain requirements we must meet.

For example, in modern evangelical circles, the only qualification for the gift of grace is to "accept Jesus as your personal Lord." OK, I can see this, but it is still something that a person has to do in order to qualify.

According to my beliefs, there are certain things, more than simply saying some words, or even making a "decision", that are required. Specifically, a person must enter into a covenant with God, through the ordinance of baptism, then endure to the end in faithfulness. There are other specific blessings that a person can also qualify for, such as the opportunity to have a marriage sealed for all eternity.

The thing about these actions and ordinances is that while they are "works", none of them "save" a person from sin and death.

For example, the ordinance of baptism has a few aspects to it. It is the visible act of entering into a covenant with God. That covenant includes the fact that the person entering the covenant agrees to take upon himself (herself) the name of Jesus Christ, agrees to obey His commandments, and to always remember Him. God agrees to accept that person into His "family", extending specific blessings to him or her. God also agrees to give the gift of the Holy Ghost. This gift is another one that has conditions and/or qualifications. The main one is that the gift becomes stronger and more clear the more we pay attention to it, but becomes quieter, inaudible, and eventually disappears if we fail to pay heed to it.

Now the real role of "works" in salvation and spiritual growth is just that. Life is about growing. Spiritual life also requires growth. But that growth doesn't come from sitting back and letting life go past you, or hiding from life. It comes from active participation. Therefore, the Bible, as well as other sacred works, stress a lot of action, including a lot of "works." The thing about the "works" is that those required of each person are different. They are required because the work is what molds the character of the person involved. If, as I believe, one of the main purposes of mortal life is to become more like Jesus Christ in character (because He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life), then choosing to do those works that He has commanded is what molds us into His likeness.

Thus we see that all of Jesus' sermons focused on works of various sorts. For example, in the Sermon on the Mount, we are urged to be humble (meek), to hunger and thirst after righteousness, to be peacemakers, etc. Each of these character traits leads to certain specific blessings.

So, while the gift of Grace is free, the Works (at least certain of them) are what qualify us for the gift. For most of us, the question then only becomes, which works qualify us for the gift?

Edited: Nighthawk on 28th Feb, 2005 - 1:00pm

Works and Grace

My understanding of the need for both grace and works is that grace is given freely after all I can do.

This quote will help me in explaining my thoughts. In my opinion, grace is absolutely FREE and there is nothing I can do to 'earn' the Savior's atonement, which makes it possible for all of us to be forgiven and to obtain 'Heaven'. I believe that the only thing that I can do to obtain grace is to have faith in Jesus Christ as my Savior. However, if that is all I needed in order to be 'saved', then anyone who had faith in Jesus Christ could obtain the same place in Heaven, no matter how anyone lived their lives, and that would not be just. If it is true that my works have nothing to do with my ability to attain a 'place' in Heaven, then why can't I just sit around the rest of my life doing nothing but evil things if I wanted to? What motive would anyone have to try to keep the Commandments and to try their best in all that they do? I think it would be unjust for someone who has lived a life of sacrifice and righteousness, someone who has made themselves pure and holy, to be meted the same judgement as someone who did many things in their life that were against God's word and Commandments, but nevertheless had faith in Jesus Christ. In my opinion, this would be especially true if someone had faith in Jesus Christ but did sinful things against that faith anyway, but then confessed Jesus Christ as their Savior to obtain Heaven. (unless there was sincere repentance made by that person) I think that I cannot be saved by grace alone nor can I be saved by my works alone. Both are needed to be saved in the Kingdom of God, in my opinion. The grace that comes through the atonement of Jesus Christ is something that I cannot do for myself, but I can make my 'works' what I want them to be. Here are some scriptures that I feel support the concept of needing good works as well as faith in order to be 'saved':

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.)

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear.

Message Edited! Edited by LDS_forever: Please keep in mind that this is NOT the LDS board, but the Bible Revealed board. Therefore, adding other scriptures that are not from the Bible is discouraged, even if you put it as offtopic. Please desist from doing this again.

Edited: LDS_forever on 1st Mar, 2005 - 4:28pm

Works and Grace

I don't believe there is an contradiction between grace and works. I think each author focused on the concept they were trying to teach. I think the two go hand in hand. I think many people focus on one or the other, but to me that is a mistake.

In my opinion, all the work in the world won't save me. That is because there is no humanly possible way for me to be perfect, or clean. if you will. Since no unclean thing can enter the Father's kingdom, on my own I can never qualify to enter the Father's kingdom. How can I ever truly be perfect while in mortality? I do not believe it is possible. For me, that is where grace comes in.

So, I am charged with doing my best. My best, not someone elses best. I believe there are guidelines to show me what it is I should strive to do while working on becoming the best I can. However, I believe, as long as I do the best I possibly can, the Savior makes up the difference.

To me that does not contradict either James or Paul. I do not believe I can simply say I "believe" and then make no effort to "live" what I say I believe. Else, how can I truly claim to believe? So, for me that is the faith without works point. Yet, no matter how hard I try to "live" what I believe, I will fall short of perfection. For me, that is the grace point.

I realize many believe it matters not what you do, but only what you believe. I also realize many believe it matters a great deal what you do specifically. I disagree with both. I believe it matters what you believe, and I believe it matters what you do, but I don't believe we all must acheive the same level of tasks because we don't all start at the same point in life, and we don't all get the same opportunities. The Savior knows us. He will judge if we did all that we could do and for me, that doesn't mean acheiving anything near to perfection.,

Technically, we can always do more or be better, but that doesn't mean we can really do more from a practical point.

As with all sensitive topics, please remember this is just my personal opinion.

Grace & Works

In my understanding, grace saves all mankind - without exclusion - to immortality. "All men are saved" resounds through the bible, where this is just one example:

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (New Testament | 1 Timothy 2:3 - 4)

God wishes all of us to be saved, and grants us as a gift immortality. We can't earn salvation, it's a gift. Do you offer to pay someone who gives you a gift? No.

However, there is just as much written about works and being rewarded for our works. So it would follow, the way I understand it, that we are saved by grace unto immortality, and then receive rewards for the good works that we do. We can progress spiritually only so far on faith alone. (This is another topic, but my belief is that reaching Heaven isn't the end of the road.)

In my opinion, of course.
Roz

Grace & Works

Konquererz brought up the verse I usually use in regards to faith and works. A lot of theological debate has been envoked about James giving opposition to what Paul said about faith; however, I don't believe he meant to discount what Paul was saying, nor do I believe that James was saying he believed there was more to salvation.

I think what he meant by that was that if we truly dedicate our lives to God, then grace saves us, BUT our hearts will also be changed and we will want to serve God. I think he is just saying that a person's outer being will reflect his/her inner self. If a person is putting in time at a church, going out into the world and preaching about God, giving of ourself and our tithes to God, then we are saying that we believe that God is going to reward us in Heaven for our deeds. If a person claims they have asked Christ into their hearts, and then does absolutely nothing but focus on themself, then what kind of faith in God is that showing? Not much. That's not to say that person really didn't make a commitment, but it just shows that they have no desire, and not enough faith in God's work, to give to others what he/she has recieved.

It's sort of like baptism to me. Being baptized does not save you, but it is an outwardly show of the inner decision one has made. So are deeds in relation to faith.

Grace & Works The Bible Revealed

Okay I was told to contribute or leave this site. I really prefer to read but here goes. The Bible uses words and phrases that I believe are often misused. In the context of the time, for example, the bible writers are speaking to an audience of believers in Christ not everyone who would hear their message. Telling them that "we" are saved by grace meant that believers are in fact saved by the faith they have in Christ as their redeemer and that in was by His grace that they have that opportunity.

The word "works" is used a lot in the Bible. In the context of the time "works" was a specifically refering to the Jewish set of rules that defined behavior for any orthodox jew of the time - by which they were judged by their peers. The Bible was indeed written by Jews to Jews (as well non-Jew). The early Christian church was made up of by Jews as were their apostles and they struggled with a new culture of "Christians" that needed to make a break from the mind set of being saved by works. So, in that context, works are not the thing that saves you but reliance in Christ as one who, through your faith, will "save" you.

But faith without works is dead. This is "works" used in a different context. The context I believe we most often think about. My opinion, is that if one really has faith, then one is motivated to act on that faith. One cannot say I believe in and will follow the One who lived His life to serve and taught that true religion was to serve and then not serve and perform works that flow out of the heart. Works are the natural result of true faith not a confession of faith - but true belief. The Bible teaches that even devils believe but devils don't have the faith that leads to action.

I suspect the apostles and early church leaders had a difficult time trying to break believers from the strong Jewish culture of "works" while trying to teach the principle of the "works" that flow from faith in Christ.

Message Edited! Persephone: It is not necessary to quote ALL of what a user says in order to reply.