Close Topic Options

Baptism - Page 3

I whole heartedly agree with this statement, which is why I said you should be baptized. Who in their right mind would not want to be more like Christ?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That's enough "qualification", is it not? God loved you, and that's why he gave the gift of his Son for you.

The reason I haven't answered these challenges is simply because so many people are challenging me. If I have not adequetly answered something, just reask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

Baptism

Bwren said:

Baptism is necessary to enter the Kingdom of God. This is in the Bible. Faith without works is dead, so we need to keep that in mind when we think the only thing we have to do is believe.

Among the commandments Christ gave, one that He emphasized as essential to salvation was baptism. These are the words to Nicodemus in John 3:3-5:

Baptism itself does not automatically save us, but it is an escential step towards gaining Salvation.

Another scripture in Mark 16: 15-16

Baptism Revealed Bible The

So, you are saying that no matter what a person believes or has done within their heart, if they don't get dunked under water, they cannot enter Heaven? So, say I were unsaved, and somebody witnessed to me, and I came to believe in God. I got down on my knees, and asked Jesus to come into my heart and turn my life over to him. Well, what if five minutes later, I get hit by a bus. Are you saying that I would then go to Hell? All because I had not had a chance to get baptised?

Being baptist, I believe that baptism is an outward show of an inward decision. It is not what saves you, but what shows the world that you have asked Jesus into your heart. By yall saying that you believe that you have to be baptised to be go to Heaven, you are saying that we can do something on our own to get to Heaven. The Bible also says "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6). It does not say "No one comes to the Father except through Me AND baptism."

Using the faith without works is dead is taking that out of context. That is speaking of our actions, and what we do with our lives after we have accepted Christ. They use the stories of Abraham and Rahab and how they showed their decision to follow God by their actions.

There is nothing we can do to get to Heaven. If we could earn our way to Heaven, then we'd all be going straight to Hell because we are imperfect. If we could earn our way to Heaven, then Jesus would have had no business suffering and dying the way He did so that we could go to Heaven.

I do believe that a person should be baptised because it is a sign of obedience, and it is that outward show. But I do not believe that should a person not be baptised, but have made that inner commitment and acceptance of Christ that they're going to be locked out of Heaven. Who are we to judge? I don't know my neighbor's heart, and so I have no business telling him that he's going to Hell because he hasn't been submerged in water.

I apologize if that sounded harsh in any way, I did not mean for it to be. I do not mean to offend anybody, but am just merely stating my belief.

Page 3 Baptism

Babyblues, since your response is directly to my statement, I will be one of the first to reply to it.

First of all, I do not think you have read my message properly or you misunderstood some important points. You're thinking in such strict terms, based on the same example you give to think that someone who died suddenly will go to hell because he/she was not baptised is to not know God's plan at all and of course, I have never said such a thing. I do not think so either.

Where do I say that?. It is Jesus Christ speaking to Nicodemus (read again my scriptural references on my last post). Those are his words not my own.

In what way am I doing that? My response was in reference to Bwren's comment that "faith is my road to salvation" I wanted to clarify as I did, that faith alone is not enough or do you also think that the only thing you have to do in this life after accepting Christ is sit your butt down on a chair all day and "have faith"?

Well, then you can well explained the scriptures I gave you.

Nobody is judging anyone, who pointed out here that if someone has not been baptized are going to Hell? I would like to know. But as a Christian, I am also my brother's keeper and it is within my commitment to follow Christ to tell the world what he has commanded us to do. If the truth offends anyone, so it be. I am not here to please men, but God.

But I am not sure what your thoughts really are about baptism since you make statements such as "dunked under water" or "submerged in water". Sorry but it sounds not only cynical but sacrilegious.

Baptism

It is not sacreligious. Southern Baptists believe in baptism by submersion, what we refer to as being dunked under water. If there's a problem with that, somebody can contact the Southern Baptist Convention. We don't believe in sprinkling, which I know some do, so please do not say my words are cynical or sacreligious. You do not know my faith, yet you are judging it.

I stated that I believe a person should be baptised because it is a sign of that inner commitment. By saying that a person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven, that is the same thing as saying they are going to go to Hell. There are only two choices: Heaven and Hell. If you can't get into one, then you're going to the other. It was not stated directly, but more indirectly.

So, you say that a person cannot enter Heaven if they are not baptised, but you also say that a person can accept Christ and still go to Heaven if they do not get baptised. I am confused on your belief, then. Are you saying that God sets down conditions for a person to enter Heaven when it comes to baptism? I am not trying to be cynical, as you put it, but understand what you're belief if because I'm seeing contradictions. That could be me misunderstanding what you're saying.

Baptism

I will only add one thing (the most important one and essential) since you do not see to get my point at all:

Once again (I hope is the last one) where do I say that directly or indirectly?. THOSE ARE JESUS CHRIST'S WORDS NOT MY OWN (Read my scriptural references!) Are you refuting that scripture or just ignoring it?

Baptism - Page 3

I do not think you are seeing my point either, which is fine. I was not posting in here to try to change anybody's belief, but merely stating my own. And I will admit that I found it rather offensive that you called me and my belief sacreligious and cynical, whether you meant it offensively or not. Just as you are faithful to your belief, so am I, and I have made no attack on what yall believe that differs from me. And the all caps letters tend to signify yelling...

This is how I interpret it, correct me if I am wrong on what you mean.

By saying it is necessary, then you were saying that without it, a person cannot go to Heaven, since Heaven is the Kingdom of God. Correct? Necessary to me means that you can't accomplish something without it. So by saying it is necessary, then that means without it, a person does not go to Heaven. Well, if they don't go to Heaven, then they go to Hell.

I was using the hit by a bus thing as an example. Because based on what you're saying, baptism is a necessity to get into Heaven. So I was asking what you believed as far as a person asking Jesus into their heart, and then them getting hit by a bus five minutes later. And I think, somewhere in all of that, you said that you did not believe that they would go to Hell. That's what I pulled out of your response, once again correct me if I am wrong.

Then that brought up my question as to what you believe because that seemed contradictory to me. Which is why I asked if you believed that God makes conditions when dealing with baptising.

Hopefully I have explained things and how I interpreted them. But I think I will gracefully bow out now and take my belief with me.

Edited: BabyBlues on 22nd Mar, 2006 - 5:10am

Baptism The Bible Revealed - Page 3

I thought I was being busy enough with the Bots and would not entertain this Thread, but I see I must and would like to address several issues...

First of all, I would like all to keep in mind that this is considered an Intellectual Forum, so this means that we simply do not trash random points, but everything we say must have a reference or quote to back it up and if we do not then there must be 'In My Opinion' somewhere in the lines...

With that said let me bring everyone back to the initial Post by Neo and the questions he gave. Now, you will note that some directly chose to stick with the topic of the Thread by answering in the format given by Neo, and others chose not to and thus have ventured into the random parts that make it far from Intellectual, but rather just a 'squabble' for want of a better word. I would advise that we stick with the format since it is inevitable that not everyone will agree.

Another point I have noticed is that some Users are using scripture to back up what they are saying and are giving food for thought by answering each question or point given - this is correct. Others are not giving any scriptural references and are instead just focusing on one line or one quote of a person (this may be due to a lack of knowledge of how Discussion is had in this Community) - this is inconsistent with the level of Discussion we all should be familiar with - please let us keep on track here.

In my opinion that is a weak reason to not answer. Again, going back with the level of Discussion we ought to maintain here should be based on what we can reference or quote unless we state 'In My Opinion'. The reason for this is simple... if something is your opinion then there is really nothing anyone can do about it, but to state something is 'x' as though it is fact when no reference is shown is another thing. When you stated that baptism is not required without any scriptural reference it made your words opinion, but because you did not state it as opinion you were challenged. You will see this happen in most Topics of this Community. I hope that helps you to understand. Take your time and respond to each point, no one is rushing you. Do answer each point one by one - in this respect will be earned for your answer even if it is merely just your opinion.

Offtopic but, Now, on to the BabyBlues / LDS rant. The same thing is happening here, one is giving scriptural references and the other is just countering with opinion / questions. The reason 'dunk' is being seen as sacrilegious is because of the terminology for something which is seen as sacred by another. For instance if I were to say "I took a 'nip' of wine" (referring to drinking the wine of sacrament) it would sound sacrilegious as "nip" is used as an expression by alcoholics in some cultures. Again, had we maintained the format then this will not go into off shoot areas.

Lastly, please all, take the time to read what each person is saying, this not a matter of who is right and who is wrong, this is a matter of building a case story of your insight and experience into the Bible so that we can be edified as to what each person believes. We ought not to make anything here a personal agenda either. Now with that said let us return to how it should be. Thanks.