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Well, well...it seems like we have reached - Page 5 - The Bible Revealed - Posted: 8th Apr, 2006 - 2:59am
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How important is it and do we all need it?
Baptism - Page 5
| QUOTE |
| I'm saying it is not necessary to be saved. If someone maintains that baptism is necessary for salvation, is he adding a work, his own, to the finished work of Christ? |
Have you read the Scriptures provided? Have you read Christ's own words saying a person cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he is baptized? Now let's not confuse oranges with apples, I am not saying that Baptism automatically "saves" an individual, what I am saying is that Baptism is an essential step towards Salvation and this is not my personal opinion but what the Scriptures teaches us.
| QUOTE |
| You can be saved by faith alone. One should be mindful of the scriptures to lead a proper life, including baptism. I believe a more important lesson than baptism is to "Love your enemy". |
Well, I guess that's entirely your personal view. There is no part in the Scriptures that says that "Love your enemy" is more important than baptism. In any case, we have a thread that deals specifically with Grace and Works, you can check it out here:
https://www.bordeglobal.com/foruminv/index....topic=12127&hl=
| QUOTE |
| One more point: the scriptures we are all quoting were written in Greek and direct translation into English is done with difficulty (note various versions of the Bible). When I or others try to examine specific scriptures out of context errors can occur |
Well, let me deal with the Scripture in the Bible where Jesus specifically says that Baptism is necessary for Salvation in different Bible versions:
| QUOTE |
| Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' (New International Version) Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of (water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' (New American Standard Bible) Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' (English Standard Version) Jesus answered, "For sure, I tell you, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit of God, he cannot get into the holy nation of God. Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh. Whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be surprised that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' (New Life Version) Jesus said, `I tell you the truth. This new birth is by water and by the Spirit. No person can enter God's kingdom if he has not been born that way. That which is born of a person is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. You must not be surprised when I say, "You must be born again." (Worldwide English (New Testament)) |
These are just some versions, and ALL of them state the same thing: Unless someone is baptised they cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It's clear as water (no pun intended).
Edited: LDS_forever on 7th Apr, 2006 - 2:09pmSponsored Links:
Baptism Revealed Bible The
| QUOTE |
| Unless someone is baptised they cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. |
Are you serious? Are you saying it has to say those exact words? *shaking head*. So, because the Scripture does not say "You shall not steal your boss's pencils" you surely go ahead and do it because it does not say those exactwords? Interesting indeed.
| Offtopic but, Listen, this is an intellectual forum. If you want to debate scriptures, you have to come up with something better than that. |
Edited: LDS_forever on 7th Apr, 2006 - 11:34pmBaptism
I normally do not like to jump in on these Topics, because I have more urgent things to do, but at the same time when I see broad daylight taken for night I have to say "Are we all mad?". I know we all have various beliefs, but the evidence I see some people given to justify a belief makes me wonder if they are really sure in what they are establishing as a proper interpretation.
| QUOTE (pockettape) |
| ...why don't we just leave it at that. |
Maybe because this is an Intellectual Discussion Forum? I do not think it is for you to decide when a User should leave a subject alone just because an agreement cannot be met.
| QUOTE |
| LDS, In my opinion you do not fully understand John 3:5-7 |
In the first place your claim of LDS_forever not understanding the scriptures was unfounded, now you seek for her to just accept it. If you cannot prove based on scripture your point of view on Baptism then simply withdraw from the Discussion and say no more. I have read what you placed and I do not see any evidence of a more full explanation.
| QUOTE |
| So I want be misunderstood I'm not saying baptism is not important. I'm saying it is not necessary to be saved. |
Huh? The point is that you often make statements intended to be factual but are merely opinion, and with that you supply a weak argument for the sake of disagreement rather than solid proof. Keep it to "In my opinion..." and no one can argue with that.
Post Date: 8th Apr, 2006 - 2:09am / Post ID: #
Baptism
In my opinion:
Although I don't believe John 3:5-7 is referring to baptism. I do believe one can be saved without baptism in rare circumstances. For example: You confess your love for Christ and have a genuine internal rebirth and on the way to your baptism your are hit by a bus. I also believe once you know the importance of baptism and you don't get baptized you are rebelling against God.
| Offtopic but, LDS I apologize for being argumentative. It is a character flaw I have and I am trying to be a better person. Sincerely, pockettape. |
Baptism - Page 5
As you explain it that way, I can agree with you. At the same time, if a person converts, and refuses to be baptized, or refuses to repent, then they can't make a "deathbed repentance" and be saved (in my opinion). So, again in my opinion, when Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the State, but refused it for himself until on his deathbed, he would not receive anywhere near the reward of, say, Stephen.
There are always exceptions that prove the rules. This is one of them. There is another exception that I am willing to accept. Little children (including those whose minds are as little children) are exempt from the requirement for baptism. They are not accountable, and if they die in that state, they will receive all the blessings and rewards possible.
Baptism The Bible Revealed - Page 5
Well, well...it seems like we have reached an agreement afterall:
| QUOTE |
| do believe one can be saved without baptism in rare circumstances. |
I agree with this too. I think God knows each one of our circumnstances and He will judge according to it.
TOPIC: Baptism