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Democracy

US-European freedom train

The Christian Science Monitor - This might surprise many: While President Bush has staked America's safety on establishing democracy in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East, Europeans care more about government promotion of democracy in countries than Americans do.
Ref. https://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._csm/edemocracy

Democracy

Greetings from the ROK,

1. I would not give a ton of credibility to an article that uses the word "jawboning" as verb.

2. As far as who wants to spread more democracy, I'd say it's a pretty even push. The U.S. has a pretty strong presence in several countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, S. Korea) with the intent to either establish or maintain freedom (or democracy - whatever). The U.K. and several other nations there, though, have always been active in promoting western ideals abroad. PUSH

3. A poll of the man on the street, as it were, isn't always the best way to gain truth, but I'd be more than willing to argue that the average american probably doesn't care all that much about the plight of Joe Nothing in Kerplakistan under the iron fist of some faceless dictator. ADVANTAGE Europe

4. While the coalition in Iraq is large (and includes the U.K., Italy, and a handful of former-Soviet republics[Globalsecurity.org]) it's still a U.S.-run effort, I feel. I'd give them more credit if they took the first push against a country like Syria or Iran, however. ADVANTAGE U.S.

5. If anyone else has more to chime in on, I'd be happy to hear it, but my feelings: until a European country gives up 2110 casualties [Drudge], I still say the U.S. is doing the most.

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I am not sure if the issue of who 'wants' to spread democracy is as important as who is spreading democracy and how it is done. Wants and actions are a completely different thing. Europeans may or may not want to spread democracy more then Americans, as WDAgent said in point 4 it is Americans who are taking action to spread democracy. Maybe the reason less Americans want their government to promote democracy abroad is that they have seen the price firsthand of getting involved in another country's struggle for freedom.

Democracy

I'm not certain either Europe nor the US want to spread democracy. I certainly don't believe Iraq or Afghanistan is a good example of such a desire. Look at the situation in both countries, they are disaster zones.

Maybe Europeans care more about other people and their plight period? Democracy doesn't always result in freedom, so I think it is dangerous to basket one term with the other.

Furthermore if nations are forcing other nations to adopt a certain political style, that is hardly democracy. The Middle East has always been a tribal society, it's part of their culture. I can not see true "democracy" ever existing for a lot of these people.

Democracy

I do believe both want to spread democracy. I do agree though, that doing it by force is immoral and stupid. I disagree with your final point that the peoples of the middle east will never experience democracy and freedom. I believe that all people of all races and cultures are capable of the ideal of freedom. No culture based on oppression can survive forever. Eventually they will move toward freedom, democracy and capitalism either through gradual reforms or violent revolution. The best way to spread democracy (and the ideals that should go with it like freedom, liberty and capitalism) isn't by war or force but by example.

Democracy

I think you miss my point. A lot of Middle East nations/cultures are tribal and they are very happy this way. That doesn't mean that they want authoritarian or dictatorship regimes ruling them. But within their own families and communities there is a tribal culture.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Who are we to judge what is right or wrong? Democracy and capitalism certainly have their flaws as well. The bottom line is to spread democracy is a ridiculous crusade. Let people determine for themselves how they want to live.

I can't see democracy ever ruling in the Middle East, because even if you have that system of government, there will still be a tribal culture which in essence is undemocratic.

Democracy

I am not sure how a tribal culture precludes the establishment of democracy. Democracy technical means a rule by the people, as Merriam-Webster online defines it

There are many ways it can be implemented (some of wich of course are not truly representative of the people). Democratic practices can be adapted to different cultures while still upholding the will of the people. Even looking at western democracies differences can be seen from more centralized democracies like france to democracies like Germany or the US where power is delegated to smaller groups like states or providences.

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Of course there are many different models of democracy. It is just a concept, it's not tangible.

Even if you install a democratic government in a country dominated by a tribal culture, there will never be true democracy. Tribal cultures have a distinct pecking order. So maybe on the surface democracy exists at a government level, but will everyone really have democratic rights? I don't think so.

One of the flawed principles of this idelogical crusade the US is involved in, is that by forcing a model of government on a nation, you are stripping the nation of a democratic right to chose their own form of government. It's hypocritical.

True democracy must come from within. It should never be effectively forced on people. And it is nobody else's right or duty to tell a sovereign country how they should govern themselves. I think you will find that is a major source of resentment many parts of the world hold against the US.