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The Woman As An Executive

Why do men seem to think that because a woman is in an Executive position it somehow puts them as 'second rate'? I understand that not all men feel so, but it has become popular through Email jokes, media and toilet talk. Do you feel the Executive female carries a different aura as compared to the Executive male in the business world?

Executive As Woman The

At my company there are a fair number of female executives and they have all done a decent job as far as I can tell. One of the executives I report to is female and she can strike the fear of god into anyone; but she gets the job done. I personally dont have a problem with female superiors but I do realize they are sometimes made the brunt of unnecessary jokes.

The Woman As An Executive History & Civil Business Politics

I've worked for both men and women executives. I think it's unfortunate that some very dedicated, hard-working, no-nonsense people are stereotyped as "cold" or "calculating" or "witchy" -- just because they are women. Men who do the same things are not disrespected in that way.

On the other hand, I've also worked for some cold, calculating, and witchy executives. Male and female. I don't think gender should be a factor in most jobs of that sort.

IMO
Roz

Executive As Woman The

WOMEN STILL STRUGGLING TO MAKE GAINS

It will be 50 years before the pay of women matches that of men and another century will pass before women make up half of the U.S. Congress, a report released Tuesday by an independent research organization predicted.
Ref. https://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C...05977%2C00.html

Executive As Woman The

What a mess of unconsidered assumptions!

What are the "average" high paying jobs? Technology, engineering, even manufacturing. I am in all three, and there are less than 1/3 of the women applying for these types of jobs. When I was going to school, there was only 1 woman in the whole manufacturing engineering technology program. There were only a handful in the manufacturing engineering program. In my workgroup, we have a few industrial engineers, but only one manufacturing engineer who is a woman. Less than 1/3 of the designers, or product engineers, are women. And my company is agressive about hiring minorities for engineering. There just aren't many product or manufacturing engineers available who are women.

Medicine now has fairly equal representation. Law still has much lower, and the record shows that women generally don't have the killer instinct required to be hugely successful in law.

Women don't try to get into the same professions and jobs as men - in general. There are exceptions, of course. But the vast majority of jobs are equally open to men and women. Most women seem to get degrees that lead to lower wages. Liberal Arts degrees just don't get the pay that engineering and scientific degress do.

Until women, in general, pursue the technical, difficult careers, they won't get the higher pay. This report makes it sound as if there is a conspiracy, especially in places where the education is poor, to keep women as second class citizens. It is far, far more complex than that.

The Woman As An Executive

Nighthawk, all of what you say is true. However, I also believe that if you were to look at statistics for these same fields you would find the average women in them still makes less than the average man. Women often don't make partner because of the demands made on her as a mom, for example. So, they are unable to work the 60 hour weeks. Whose fault is that? I don't think it is anyone's fault, but it is a fact of society. Also, as a women, I know there are cases where it is just assumed you can pay a women less than a man. Sometimes the feeling is a man needs it more because he has a family to support. Sometimes it is simply that they can because women aren't as aggressive about such things.

In the military, the argument has been made that women have a harder chance making certain ranks because they cannot hold certain jobs that tend to be the faster track for promotion. Some of that is changing. That was one of the arguments used to allow women to become fighter pilots, for example.

Finally, one of the discussions surrounding this topic often is that the reason the jobs women are in are traditionally low paying to begin with is because they are traditionally held by women. A good administrative assistant really is essential to the success of any business, yet it is a low paying job. I worked for an attorney once as an administrative assistant. He told me things ran smoother in the office if he took a day off than if I did, yet I was not compensated more than what an average administrative assistant was. So, if administrative assistants had always been men, would that job pay more?

I don't know, no one does, but that is a part of the equation.

The Woman As Executive

Those are certainly valid arguments. But in the industry I am in, I don't see it at all. The administrative assistant in my workgroup, for example, has been with the company exactly the same amount of time as me. While I haven't asked about her salary, I know that it is within about 2% of mine, unless she has gotten a promotion that I haven't yet. I am an engineer, and almost all the administrative assistants in the company (one of the Big Three automakers) get paid a whole lot more than me. In fact, I know for certain that a lot of the hourly workers, women as well as men, get paid a whole lot more than me.

This is all true of the entire automotive industry - which has a disproportionate number of female executives now.

But you made an excellent point when you brought up the law offices. If a woman doesn't put in the 60 hour weeks that the man does, and so the man is more successful, then who is to blame? According to most of the surveys and reports, including the one that started this discussion, it is apparently the "system" because the woman should get the same pay and benefits although she doesn't succeed as well as the man.

Of course, as far as I am concerned, no mother should be pursuing a career where she needs to work 60 hours per week to succeed anyway. And, yes, I understand the arguments about single mothers, women who want to be fulfilled by their work, etc, but that doesn't justify the damage done to the children.

So, when it comes down to it, as long as women make choices - such as working in an overcrowded career field such as journalism, or choosing to get a degree in French Literature instead of Medicine or Engineering, they will suffer the consequences of getting lower pay.

The Woman As Executive Politics Business Civil & History

I understand and realize that women in different careers than men will often make less money. I don't expect an administrative assistant to make as much money as an attorney - the education level required is much less for the assistant, obviously.

However, women in the same career fields as men, educated the same and who put out the same effort and do the job as well as, or better than, their male counterparts should receive equal (or better, if warranted) compensation. This is the part that irks me when it's not happening as it should.

The fact that women "in general" are still making less money than men "in general" is just as you pointed out, Nighthawk: We quite often aren't even in the same ball game, let alone the league. I don't understand how the two can even be compared. Do men in different career fields get compared as to how much money they make? "Oh, no! My plumber only makes $20 an hour, and my attorney makes $250 an hour!! That's so unfair!!"

IMO
Roz

Edited: FarSeer on 21st Nov, 2004 - 12:00am