Related Information to Gunship For Us?

Gunship For Us? - Page 2

Firstly, I'm not convinced that the US Coast Guard is as successful as you make them out to be. They have some successes, but then again, so do we.

Secondly, they don't operate in isolation. There is an active Navy and Air Force who also have responsibility for border security and operate even beyond. They as well as the British Navy operating in the region, intercept drugs from time to time as well, using their military assets.

The information being presented, and I don't know first hand, is that the gun problem is directly related to the drug transshipment industry (if you call it that). The drugs come in with guns. The drugs are forwarded while the guns stay.

I don't think, the intention is to stop using radar and patrols. The recently installed radar system, as I understand it, gives our forces a wider field of view -- even beyond our waters, extending to Grenada and St Vincent.

The use of Fast Patrol Boats by the CG is also to be increased as reported by the Gov't. The strength of our forces is being increased. This takes time. It requires increased facilities and training. This also takes time, but because I've been exposed to some of our military's operations, I see the improvements and the potential for these improvements. Frankly, I'm impressed and optimistic.

Brigadier Joseph, the Director of SAUTT is the one who said that we shouldn't expect to see immediate results because of the acquisition of these pieces of hardware. He was talking about the Airships (or blimps), but I guess this would apply to Armed Helicopters ans anything else as well. And it makes sense. Does my getting a degree immediately improve my standard of living? My potential increases in the short-term, and if I'm lucky, so would my income. If it doesn't, does that mean that I give up or that my educational efforts were a waste of time and money? Sometimes, the market changes and the demand for the qualification I have of lowered and I need to re-tool. But even an immediate change in income doesn't change my lifestyle or general standard of living, at least not immediately.


Sadly, that's where our military and law enforcement units are right now, but as I said earlier, I'm impressed with the changes I see (and not just those reported in the media) and I'm optimistic.

Us Gunship

Although that is true we could say the same thing about T&T's military. Keep in mind we are talking about a country that probably about the size of Baltimore city, we should be able to at least patrol our borders well enough (24 hours a day), because we have the money to spend on it.

Maybe you have seen something that the general population has not, if so it will be good if you can elaborate on what it is that has raised your optimism.

Yes, I believe this is how it goes down. Unfortunately, guns are just as valuable or more so than drugs in the criminal world.

Although I understand you analogy, it does not mean that you will not work towards it and be optimistic about the potential. The remarks made by the general seem to be pessimistic and are not needed to an already down depressed society that has lost hope in it's protective services.

Now it is easy to talk about optimism, but if you were a victim, if it was your family member kidnapped and killed then would you sing the same tune? Yes, I do believe in being optimistic, after all positivity breeds positivity, but at the same 'faith without works' is dead. The 'works' need to be committed among the psyche of those in charge, if there is to be true change, and not just a change. I personally have chased thieves, jumped in cars, followed them, surrounded a couple with weapons, and even with all of that was quite disappointed in the approach of the police when I requested their assistance hence I am sharing my input from experience. I have known, and I know from first hand interaction with the protective services that there is a lot more to change that our hardware upgrades. Thus, my main emphasis here is not so much about the Gun Ship, but it is the people who are going to be in charge of its' use.

All of this in my opinion of course...

Gunship For Us? Caribbean / Tobago & Trinidad

I do not know how much is too much to spend to stop criminal activity but I think in this particular issue they are focusing on the "bigger" things when we are having an extremely serious problem with kidnapping and murders, how all this equipment that were purchased are going to help Mr. Joe who has a business and do not know whether he will be kidnap tomorrow?. What I am trying to say is, I applaud all the great changes and technology they are trying to use...but what I think it should be done first is deal with the bigger issues that we are living every day in our lives or did we get used to it already?. It's all a matter of priorities.

Page 2 Us Gunship

Fine. But is Baltimore crime free? Remember that our crime isn't only generated internally. Yes, we are getting the equipment (and I understand that we actually have it) that will enable us to see what is happening 360 degrees 24/7.

I know many of the senior officers in the Defence Force. I also know a few of the senior ranks of in the SAUTT. A few years ago, I knew the equipment that the TTDF had. It was a sorry state. I don't want to go into detail, but they were literally cap in hand on many occasions. It it wasn't for their training, attitude and ability, they would have been an embarrassment internationally.

At the time the same people calling for drastic action, couldn't justify spending more money on the military in peace time. Not wanting to go into partisan politics, but this administration changed that. I believe that their motive is political and I waiting to see if I'm right, but their actions suggest that I am.

They increased the strength of the units, acquired more equipment and facilities and dealt with (or are dealing with) the HR and management issues that would result from that. Remember that these guys are employees with employment contracts, benefits and so on as any other employee.

This may be somewhat dated to be impressive, but I had a brother who was murdered about 21 years ago. I still see the pain that my mother feels. I see his daughter who grew up without her father and so on. At the time his murderer was known, arrested taken to trial and freed. That and other live experiences taught me the meaning of 'seven times seventy' and 'turning the other cheek'.

At my office of about 200 people, we've had 2 people's relatives (a cousin and a nephew) who were kidnapped for ransom, 3 people's relatives (a husband, a sister and a father-in-law) who were murdered, and a colleague (a personal friend and acquaintance of mine for the past 20 years) who was murdered. I still can't shift blame from the perpetrators to the system. The system by nature is reactive and I don't see it being any other way without taking away basic freedoms.

Along the way I've learned to trust the so-called experts, knowing that they are learning as they go and would either fail in their attempt or fail to attempt. Like I said, I know many of these guys. I know some of their families and friends. They are affected and 'fearful' (for lack of a better word) just as you and me. If and when they make mistakes, it's not out of spite or apathy as we sometimes make it out to be. If however I think that I can do better, or that I even know what better is, then I should go and do it, not complain that it's not being done. I dislike it when someone does that to me.

What Brig Joseph said was that we shouldn't expect the hardware to bring about an immediate reduction in crime levels. Not that we shouldn't expect it at all. He mentioned that in places where they have been used, the results weren't seen before 5 years. We are learning from these people's mistakes, so our results should be seen faster. It's different to the Commissioner of Police announcing crime plans and people not seeing results and then complaining about that.

Here it's a case of being condemned for being 'perceived' as being to optimistic or being condemned for being 'perceived' as not being optimistic enough.

As reported in this evening's news, the PM announced that what we are buying are civilian helicopters with weapons mounted and not the Apache's or other types of Gunships as reported by 2 newspapers that I've seen. This goes back to my point about the media filling in the blanks. They should either wait for the information or go after it, not make it up.

Interesting as this is a challenge I face at work daily. I've been called out from vacation because I project I'm managing has gotten higher priority from Senior Management and I literally have 3 days to get it done. When I had 3 months and needed staff, everybody was busy and without Senior Management support, I couldn't get any manager to make their staff available.

Priority is relative and 'in the eyes of the beholder'. My project was important to me and not anybody else. Now my vacation is important to me and not anybody else, until the end of March -- the deadline by which I need to take it. Then, it'll be important to HR.

Some will say (and have said) that the social programmes to reduce poverty should be given priority in order to reduce crime, then you have those who condemn CEPEP, URP, MuST, MiLat, MyPart, CCC and the many other programmes in place.

In February, Gillian Lucky said in Parliament, while contributing to the Anti-Terrorism Bill that it had the potential to deny people of their civil liberties. Then last week in a newspaper column she said that the Gov't should take 'Draconian' steps in reducing crime.

Again, I'm not saying that the Gov't can't do better, but I believe that they along with the security agencies are doing the best that they can, and can do with more support from the general public than criticism.

Us Gunship

Now, keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has never been in Trinidad, and knows very little about the politics and culture there.

Most of the discussion seems to be about the general level of crime within the country, with much of it being personal and violent in nature. In such a case as this, obviously a gunship will not be much help, unless there is a strong organization to the criminal element. I still think that the gunship would be a great help in fighting piracy and drug traffic.

As for the personal, violent crime, what are the laws about having the populace armed? Kidnappers tend to think three or four times if they suspect that their targets are either armed or have armed guards. If even 1 out 5 potential victims are armed, kidnappers quickly learn that their form of employment is too dangerous to continue in.

I believe that this same logic applies to countries. If Trinidad is armed with a quick response capability it suddenly becomes a more dangerous potential victim. Helicopter gunships can respond very quickly to a wide variety of threats that an airplane or ship would be unable to deal with. Some examples that I can immediately think of would be to stop a high speed boat running drugs, or to provide long range armed surveillance of a suspected pirate operation.

As for the statement by the Movement for National Development (MND) that "As far as we are aware, Trinidad and Tobago is not at war with anyone and unless this government is planning on taking us to war, we have no need for combat helicopters at this time," that seems particularly short sighted and pacifistic. With crime as bad as some of you have described, Trinidad is most certainly at war, just not with another country.

The US Coast Guard has helicopters of various types, including gunships, that are launched from their ships at see for rescue and interdiction operations. If your country doesn't have this capability, then it is definitely at a disadvantage.

in my humble opinion.

Gunship For Us?

We have strick gun control with the Commissioner of Police having sole say if your application for a Firearms Users Licence (FUL) is approved or not. There is an appeal board of some sort, but I've never heard of them reversing or recommending the reversal of a CoP's decision. In fact the board wasn't even constituted for a few years until someone sued the Gov't because he couldn't appeal the rejection of his application.

When I last read the Firearms Act (about 20 years ago), the CoP didn't have to give a reason for rejecting an application, so I'm not sure how the appeal board would make their decisions.

Based on what I've seen, FULs would normally be given to businesspeople or farmers who have convinced the CoP that they need a firearm to protect their lives, family or property from a clear and present danger. Sportsmen who participate of firearms related sports may be granted licences for that purpose.

Firearm ownership has become a status symbol, with some owners flaunting the fact that they have one. This makes them a target for wouldbe criminals. Some weapons have gone missing. We even have cases where Security Guards are robbed of their weapons while on duty.

There have been cases where bandits have been killed by licenced FUL holders in the commission of a crime. This doesn't seem to deter them. Much of the killing is gang related -- war over turf and other vendettas. Many of those killed, were themselves suspects in the killing of others. This also accounts for the low solve-rate. With the primary suspect dead, investigations and subsequent court matters never materialise.

Witnesses are another group of targets. Many hits are because a person may have seen or knows too much. This further deters the law enforcement's ability to solve murders.

Gunship Us - Page 2

This answers why your views tend to lean towards sympathy for them and the arrangements currently being executed.

My belated sympathies... so then you out of all of us within this thread should be the most sensitive and urgent with regards to the seriousness of this issue then. As Nighthawk mentioned (and in keeping with the theme of the thread) there are aspects of crime today that may be helped by something modern and flying in the air, but the main action needs to be on land where it is already in progress. Yes, we can stop new cases by patrolling the borders, but there are already termites running around within the borders eating away at the delicate fragments of society.

Offtopic but, NOTE: In the Board are a list of threads dealing with other aspects of crime in T&T specifically... thumb through the pages for further development if you wish.

Gunship Us Trinidad & Tobago / Caribbean - Page 2

Once again, helicopter gunships are designed to provide support for ground actions (which would include actions at sea).