Related Information to ICon Kingmaker Pathfinder Rules, Setting, Question

ICon Kingmaker Pathfinder Rules, Setting, Question - Page 39

I think you're confused on the order of events.

You're all a bunch of murder-hobos in my book But yeah KN, you definitely tried to attack well before any threat was made. Archival likely won't let that lie. Also, he stated he was bound to his current location - so he couldn't go see. Sounds like a curse put on him to me. The likely reason for his evil aura, in my opinion, is because he's stuck in his current state until someone helps him. Asking our aquatic friends to recover the body will likely be the best manner. Shoot, even if it doesn't release him from undeath, it might still release him from being bound to the place of his death. If that's the case, we'd have yet another valuable scout.

Honestly Kyr, I'm willing to bet it has some sort of DR. Theaton would have likely died due to stubbornness if Jesla hadn't stepped in. I just have to figure out how best to roleplay it now so that the kingdom doesn't suffer. The main reason why Archival worked with Mykael to try and get Zork and Theaton to join the same kingdom was because he knew they would have no chance of successfully creating their own with their limited resources and general lack of diplomacy. Part of me wishes I would have just kept Archival quiet and then had him swoop in and fix everything once their kingdom was revolting. Chances are their settlement wouldn't have fallen though; ICon's too nice of a guy.

Question Setting Rules Pathfinder Kingmaker ICon

Theaton was ready to stop until he started to black mail us and threatened to torment us until we got the body. Normally when something jumps out at you, you tend to react first then think later. That is why the continued attacks instead of stopping.

ICon Kingmaker Pathfinder Rules, Setting, Question Archive Pathfinder / D&D

You tell yourself what you need to in order to justify Theaton's actions to yourself. I find the whole situation comical and will adjust my roleplay accordingly for the scenario.

Page 39 Question Setting Rules Pathfinder Kingmaker ICon

To be fair, when Theaton fired the first shot, we had no reason to suspect Davik had a will of his own. I don't think anyone in the party would object to killing a mindless undead, lack of threat or no.

But yeah, Kresnik isn't of the opinion that Davik presented enough of an immediate threat to go to such extremes. The creature's bound to this location, threats are all he has to work with, and there's no proof it can even carry them out.

Question Setting Rules Pathfinder Kingmaker ICon

Theaton fired his first shots when Jesla was in a vulnerable position above the water. It was in defense of her. He has not fault at all for those. If killing evil creatures is a murder- hobo then sign Jesla up. She has a clarity of vision. How do we know he is bound to the location? The characters have no reason to believe him. He did threaten all the characters by the way.

Edited: Kyrroeth on 28th Jan, 2017 - 8:22pm

ICon Kingmaker Pathfinder Rules, Setting, Question

That seems to be the crux of the issue. We don't know.

We all seem to be erring on the side of caution, some are just seeing a threat, while others are seeing a potential victim.

Regardless of the truth, sorting this mess out later is going to be… interesting.

Edited: daishain on 28th Jan, 2017 - 8:42pm

ICon Kingmaker Pathfinder Rules Setting Question - Page 39

Ignoble says...

I don't think the murder hobo concept can really be applied to the party by any stretch of the imagination. We don't go around killing everything and everyone we come across. Archival may see the undead creature as a sentient being, perhaps cursed to be undead through no fault of his own and thus wants to interact with him that way but Mykael does not see it that way as he explained; we are dealing with undead, it is irrelevant why the creature exudes evil the fact remains that it does. Mykael, Jesla, and Theaton do not recognize this creature as a living being, as Jesla said you can't murder something that is not alive. If we were dealing with a demon or devil, Mykael would likewise want to destroy it, yes the demon or devil has free will but it is a threat to all that is good by its very nature. Mykael applies the same concept to the undead regardless of whether they have sentience or free will, their very nature and existence threaten the realm.

In real life we have no means, other than observing behavior, to determine whether someone or something is good or evil by our definitions but Pathfinder, Dungeons & Dragons, etc. Is different in that there are spells and abilities that grant that knowledge. So again, as far as Mykael is concerned this this is evil, no doubt in his mind, its very nature is evil. A murder hobo doesn't care if the person or entity they are interacting with is good, evil or indifferent, they will kill them simply because they get in the way or they possess something that the murder hobo wants and its just easier to kill them. Mykael's desire to destroy this creature is not based only on the fact that it is in the way, but again, because he knows that the creature is evil and undead and by its very nature is a threat to the party and to realm. That's how he sees it.

Obviously Archival does not see it the same way, but that doesn't automatically make Archival right nor does it make Mykael right. Mykael is staying his hand because he also believes in the rule of authority and as he explained, if the leaders of the realm cannot obey those in positions of authority when they disagree with them, how can they expect their subjects to do the same. Everything becomes relative to each individuals view and when that happens one can justify any behavior and the rule of law falls apart.

Archival does have one point that Mykael would probably agree with in that once it was recognized that the threat was not immediate, the party could have backed off and approached the situation from another angle. Doesn't mean that he would not have advocated destroying the creature nor would he have advocated doing the creatures bidding, but there was not a need to attack right at that moment. On the other hand the situation is such, regardless of why, that his comrades are in imminent danger and he has a hard time sitting by and watching the fight; the good part of his alignment is somewhat at odds with the lawful part at the moment as they are telling him conflicting things I think.

The good says protect your friends and comrades from this undead evil creature while the lawful says he's basically been ordered to stand down by someone that he has recognized as being in a position of authority over him.

ICon Kingmaker Pathfinder Rules Setting Question D&D / Pathfinder Archive - Page 39

Yes, it is. I'm sure Icon wasn't preparing to have some characters jailed and put on trial *smile*. Jesla can't comprehend Archival's viewpoint at all. She thinks he might be insane now.

Edited: Kyrroeth on 28th Jan, 2017 - 9:00pm