Close Topic Options

Dhimmi

Dhimmi

What are your views about 'Dhimmi'? According to one interpretation, Dhimmi means:

''...a non-Muslim subject of a state where Islamic law is implemented. Dhimmis were officially allowed to practice their religion in return for paying a poll tax - jizya - and accepting certain legal disabilities. The word often refers to Christians or Jews living in a Muslim country and having lesser rights under Muslim laws."
Ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

Dhimmi

The status of "dhimmi" is one of the most terrible parts of Islamic history and practice, as far as I am concerned. What is even worse is that I see so many people accepting that status, all on their own! It is particularly evident among people who justify Islamist excesses, all in the name of "tolerance", but criticize those who DON'T accept those same excesses.

Since the practice and status of dhimmi is still in effect in many Muslim countries, I feel that this is another indication that those countries have a long way to go before joining the 21st century.

Dhimmi Islam Studies

Pardon, but you seem to have incorrectly(albeit innocently, and commonly as it were) misinferred the correct meaning of what it is to be a dhimmi, what situation has to exist to be a dhimmi, what exactly the "jizyah" is about.
Side note: wikipedia is a VERY poor source for authentic Islamic knowledge.

First, An Islamic State must exist, this includes the establishment of the khulafah.
Dhimmis, are a protected people. They are the Christians and Jews that live within an Islamic State, Freely practice their religion, and are protected by the Muslims/Muslim Armies, as though they were Muslims. As a result, since they are not required to fight, they pay a tax, Americans do this all of the time, we get services, we get freedoms, we get benefits, and in turn, we pay taxes, over 60% of taxes you pay will go to the military. Not much different than dhimmi status.
The Christians and Jews are as well granted the right to practice their religion, they are bound by THEIR religious laws, and they are tried by THEIR court systems. They do not have to follow Shariah, per se, they must live within the guidelines of their particular faith though.

Dhimmi

I understand your explanation IsaMuslim and can agree with it, but I do wonder if these same Jews and Christians and whomever else would really be 'left to worship' how or what they wanted in their community? I do not want to get into the topic here as there are other Threads about it, but we do see that people who leave Islam and / or are of other religions are treated very badly when they live within and Islamist environment or should I say where dhimmi is setup. So my main question is are they really 'free' or are laws and stipulations so binding that it would almost seem like an encampment? References will be a plus too unless you state "In my opinion...".

Dhimmi

There are clear problems with this, Neither of us has seen a true Islamic State. And yes albeit there Islamish states. But not of them properly implement Shariah, and none have, as of yet, established the Khulafah again. Until this occurs the mimicking of Islamic States will continue to be a dismal failure of some dictatorship/monarchy or some other vile form of rule that is incompatible with Islam.

Offtopic but, As for references. I have some references However I would have to type them up by hand. Is it appropriate to type a book title, it's chapters/pages, would that suffice? Or should I type what I am referring to, give the book as a source, and then leave it at that?

Message Edited! Persephone: It is not necessary to quote the entire message of the user above you. For questions with regards to the use of the Community please ask within your Intro Thread.

Dhimmi

Now that makes sense, but I wonder how many groups / countries do openly admit that there isn't a true form of Khulafah established yet? Thus there probably is not a true order in establishing dhimmi either. So what we in fact see is the practise set up erroneously, but that leads to another question: What are Muslim leaders who know this doing to ensure or point out these things? It seems like there is a lot of fighting among Muslims themselves that each faction will not listen to the other.

Dhimmi

I appreciate your definition of dhimmi, along with your condemnation of excesses that we all see happening.

When I consider the concept of dhimmi, I must consider how it is used in reality. Such things as the Egyptian idea that no non-Muslim can bear witness against any Muslim - at all. That in order to prove guilt of a Muslim who has harassed, raped, murdered, stolen from or otherwise damaged a non-Muslim, four Muslim men of good report must bear witness against the charged Muslim.

I also must consider the many, many instances of Blood Libel thrown against Jews throughout the Middle East, that have stirred up massive riots and pogroms against the Jews. I am talking about things that have been happening for hundreds of years in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt and other countries. I must also wonder about the Egyptian continuing practice of oppression of Coptic Christians. There, Muslim "thugs" frequently burn up Coptic churches, homes, and businesses, then the officially Muslim government refuses to allow the Copts to rebuild.

Finally, there is the common practice among the Middle East of Muslim men taking non-Muslim women and girls, making them their wives, then if those same women try to return to their original faith, they are murdered.

I know that you will probably say that this is not true Muslim behavior. However, it is reality. And it is NOT uncommon or isolated events.

Dhimmi Studies Islam

I would like merely one actual fact based account of this occurring NOW. From Muslims, not just people who live in the Middle East. There is a clear difference between someone who just happens to be born to Muslim parents, or who happens to be born in the Middle East.
You have to remember as well, that only 20% of all Muslims are Arab.

Offtopic but, You state that I would say this is not true Muslim behaviour. You're right, It is not. And As far as I am aware it is not reality, and the actions of these men are NOT sanctioned by Islam. Just as the killing of Abortion clinic doctors is not sanctioned by Christianity