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God A Man - Page 3

The doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints can be found in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price (not exclusively the Book of Mormon). This is not a limit to the knowledge that God has imparted to his children throughout history, and does not limit God to revealing more of his knowledge to his Children. Thus to say that because a doctrine is not found in the Book of Mormon or even the Bible then God must not consider it an important knowledge, only limits the knowledge that God has.

God is all knowing. As we see in the Bible, he has commanded us to know God and his son Jesus Christ to receive eternal life.

We believe that man can only really know God when he learns his thoughts, and learns that which God knows. We realize that we have such a small amount of information revealed to us pertaining to the nature of the Eternities that it is impossible to fathom that God would impart to us his knowledge in full, but God does want to reveal all things to us. We are just not ready to learn all that there is to know.

The nature of God must be revealed to each of us personally.

This implies that even in the ancient Church there were things that were not revealed to the Church because they were not ready to hear it. It also implies that there was something covered or hid that would, at some future date be revealed. Just because something is not revealed immediately does not mean that it is an untruth. Thus the revelation on the character and nature of God, (that is found in all of the Scriptures in part) is only a limited description of who God is.
I believe that we will all realize in the next life that we are much more closely aligned with God as his sons and daughter, then we ever could realize on this earth.

Even the Apostles of Christ were not ready for the knowledge that Christ had within him, and by extension no one on earth is ready for all knowledge yet.

Rather off topic, but... The main purpose of the Book of Mormon is to bring men to Christ and to a knowledge of his Divinity. In this it is one of the most perfect books on earth. But it does not have all of the knowledge that GOd possesses

Man God

Perhaps it easier to understand the Mormon concept of God by stating that we believe that God and man are of the same species biologically, at different stages of evolution. Man can be considered the larval stage of the species, and God being the most highly evolved state. Each larva has the potential of godhood, but only those who follow the path set forth by Christ can achieve that potential.

I have used this explanation before and it seems to have helped others better understand the Mormon concept of God being a perfect man.

God A Man Studies Doctrine Mormon

It is difficult for me to put myself in the same line as the Almighty. I believe the Mormons are making God more like a literal father. It is nice to consider it like that so long as we understand that he will always be the Almighty.

Page 3 Man God

The goal for us is to possess the divine attributes God has. This does not take away any part of our relationship with Him as our God and Father.

This is a good scripture to ponder on the matter. Christ is now equal with God in terms of God's divine attributes (perfection, power, glorified body, roles of Godhood, etc.). However, though Christ is exactly like Heavenly Father, he considers himself servant to and still holds His Father as His God. Jesus Christ showed us the way to be exalted, or raised up through divine strength (grace). He descended into mortality, taking upon him flesh; then he atoned for our sins and died and took a glorified and perfect body through His resurrection. In this way, he was doing the same work God was doing; saving us by sending Divine Help. Thus, Christ has a name above ours which is a name of glory and power: the name of Savior and Lord.

The only purpose of his glory and power is to save us, to lift us through His divine strength and power (grace). Now, at the end of this quote it says that this process did not diminish the glory of the Father but rather added to the glory of the Father. It will be to the glory of the name of God when he is named God of infinite more exalted beings.

God is like a divine mentor of an endless multi-level-marketing organization.

I understand the stigma at saying we may become like God, and I cringe sometimes when people misunderstand and think we're saying we -- are -- like God now or that we will somehow -- exalt ourselves -- over God and somehow he will not be needed anymore. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Sure, it does increase the view of humanity's potential since we consider that for man were all things made, and what man might become is greater than anyone can imagine. But that is what God intends. That's why when people try to cut themselves off from Him and set themselves up as gods they incur punishment from Him; it frustrates the whole system for that individual and can endanger others from being blessed by God through grace to rise to their own exaltation if they choose to participate in futile self-deification. Only Christ can purify us; we cannot do it ourselves. Only God can exalt us; we cannot "make" ourselves exalted beings.

The tower of Babel is a prime example of man trying to reach heaven without God; the devil as well--he wanted to exalt himself above God and take his throne. That's not our goal at all. As the devil knows, you can't "take" God's throne--ever.

A mineral cannot become a plant unless the plant reaches down its roots and takes the mineral into it's own being, changing the material it was into the same material the plant is made of. Likewise, we cannot rise above our own fallen nature but require a Savior to exalt us; and the only way for Him to do that is for him to bless us with a process that will change our natures into His likeness. The process is incomplete until God has made the "stuff" we are made of the same "stuff" he is made of--in every way. We are not truly "saved" until the process is complete.

No one has greater reason to praise God and give thanks for the Grace of Jesus Christ than those who know the Plan of Salvation!

Again, this does not diminish Christ or God; it is their work and their glory to exalt the children of God. And if we say that the Grace of Christ cannot exalt a man then we place an inappropriate limitation on the power of God. He loves us and wants all the joys he experiences for us as well. And Christ will still be our Lord, and God our God and Heavenly Father forever and ever.

The exciting thing about this is, there's no boring and useless harps and wings involved; we glorify God by helping others. I can't think of a better plan or one that is more divine in nature than that.

Plus, it's exactly the focus of Christ's teachings in his earthly ministry, every word pointing to our role as future perfectly-divine mentors in a heavenly and infinite chain.

Man God

If God was once a man that would mean he wasn't always perfect. This does not fit the Bible's description of an all powerful God.

God A Man

What does being all powerful have to do with being perfect?

Wasn't Jesus, the Son of God, here as a man? We consider Jesus Christ to be a glorified, resurrected man, to stand at the right hand of God in all power and glory.

We're commanded to be like God:

Part of why Jesus came to Earth was to educate humans about God. Everything Jesus did was something His Father did:

Therefor, if we study the life of the Savior, we are in effect also studying the life of the Father of us all. In so doing, we discover our potential to also be like God.

God Man - Page 3

Do most Mormons realize how radically different their conception of God is from that of "orthodox" christianity? As an atheist, wouldn't you find it strange that I can say I could be a faithful Mormon without changing any of my basic philosophical views? Yet that is the case. The LDS Church and atheists alike deny the existence of a transcendent, infinite being which created the universe "ex nihilo." Everything which we can experience, including gods, is part of the universe.

Though Mormons use terms like "infinite" "eternal" and "all-powerful" in reference to their gods, they clearly do not use them in an unlimited sense. Mormon deities, however "exalted" and powerful they might be, are creatures of the universe. They are subject to the laws of reality itself and derive their status by advancing from lesser states of being to godhood. Their knowledge and power might become incredible (especially from our human perspective) but never infinite, since they will always be advancing and learning.

In one short revelation, Joseph Smith irrevocably committed Mormonism to materialism:

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8

Thus, like atheists, Mormons do not believe in a supernatural realm. Mormon deities are different from humans only in degree, not kind. Joseph Smith further asserted that intelligence itself is eternal, we are co-eternal with the gods. Apparently, at some time in the past, some intelligences "got the jump" on others and began their advancement to godhood. Assuming I accept the nebulous concept of eternal, self-existent intelligences composed of matter or energy, I could become a Mormon on a purely naturalistic basis and remain an atheist in terms of rejecting supernatural beings.

However, it would appear these deities run into time constraints which Joseph Smith could not have anticipated. If spirits are matter, as Joseph Smith proclaimed by revelation, they could not be eternal since all matter in our universe came into existence some 13.7 billion years ago in the singularity we term the "Big Bang." Many traditional Christians like to focus on this event as the moment of creation. Because they view God as transcendent, this remains a theological claim which can not be investigated by science. I'm quite convinced that science is leading us in a direction which will demonstrate the Big Bang was not a unique event, and thus does not require a God to "cause" it, but that's another matter entirely.

Since LDS doctrine confines all of reality to a natural state, this creates considerable difficulties for any concept of eternal gods or intelligences. In the first moments of the Big Bang, everything that later became our universe was condensed into a point so dense there was no differentiation of any kind. Matter itself and the forces that govern it did not exist, so there could have been no intelligences--let alone billions upon billions of them.

So let's be generous and grant that they somehow came into existence at some later point--that along with matter and energy, nature produced intelligences by the billions that could become self-aware and advance in knowledge and power. Where would the first intelligences to advance have gained the knowledge they needed to produce (or find) suitable planets for habitation? Mormons teach that for one to be exalted, one must follow "Eternal Gospel Principles"--presumably these first deities did so as well, otherwise there would be a separate path to exaltation. Are these principles separate from sentient beings? How did they originate? Did the principles or the gods come first? How can there be principles that govern moral behavior unless they are mandated by a pre-existent moral being who has the power to formulate and enforce them?

Are the LDS deities bothered by the fact that they not only had a beginning, but there is a certain end to their existence as well? Our universe will have one of two fates--it will expand until there is total entropy, or it is cyclic and will produce a new Big Bang which will destroy everything we know.

I completely agree with Mormons on the importance of Free Agency--well, actually more so. I am absolutely convinced we are responsible for our own destinies in this world. Unlike Mormons and other Christians, however, I see no life beyond this one in any manner. For most Christians, nature itself is a product of consciousness (God wills it into being). For Mormons, consciousness is an eternal aspect of nature. I disagree with both. I think it is quite clear that consciousness is a product of nature. The human intellect is completely dependent on a complex arrangement of matter and energy. Remove the matter, or damage it enough, and the intellect is gone. There is no evidence anything survives.

This means one thing: Live this life to the fullest, it is the only one you will ever have--and when you realize that, it makes it all the more precious. There are no worlds beyond where you will be fathering (or bearing) billions of spirit children to inhabit other planets. If there are other intelligent species in our universe, they have evolved on their own path and may be quite unlike us. However, they will share one unavoidable trait: They will be mortal, because our universe is finite.

I know devout Mormons have "testimonies" about the truth of their faith. Yet I wonder how you can find these concepts of god satisfying. Do you really envision a reality in which you spend eternity populating and guiding countless other planets on the same path you have taken? How does the concept of finite, progressing deities inspire any sense of awe or wonder?

In the end, I find Mormonism absolutely fascinating. I also find its vision of reality to be bizarrely incoherent. On the other hand, most Mormons I have met have been wonderful people--I even married one!

God Man Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 3

This is debatable. I do not believe that God has any more advancing and learning (in the scence that he gains more power or knowledge) that he has to do. Most Latter Day saints Believe that God is indeed all knowing (though there are some debates on this manner) and he is all powerful. He only advances in the posterity and creations that he brings forth. If capacity to retain knowledge becomes in fact infinite and the processes by which it is gained is equally infinite, it is possible for "God" to be all knowing in a relatively short period of time. Consider the advances we have had in computers. In a few short years I have seen the computer go from MegaBytes to Gigabytes to Terrabytes. With infinite capacity to retain and use knowledge God can indeed be all powerful and know everything that can be known.

We do believe that Spirit is matter, only more refined and that all Supernatural laws are indeed laws that, though we do not have an understanding of, are based on "pure" science. God is the ultimate scientist in my opinion.

Mormonism declares there has never been a beginning to the progression of mankind. It goes eternally back and will continue eternally forward. God never had a beginning in a sence that his geneology is eternal into the past as well as the future.

The following are some of my own thoughts on the matter and are not necessarily official Doctrine:

1. Ex nilo creation does not exist in Mormonism. Element (either in the form of energy as well as matter) is eternal as God, and is infinite. We have a limited knowledge on the types of Matter (dark Matter and energy) so there is room for interpretation as to what those substances really are.

2. Some Scientists have theorized concerning multiple Big Bangs in Multiple Universes. This would not conflict with the Mormon Doctrine of taking preexisting matter and using to create other universes or having multiple universes in the infinite reaches of space and does not preclude the fact that God came from another universe to start this one. The Big Bang may have been his way of starting the process in this Universe.

3. Some Scientist also theorize that the Big Bang was not necessarily the "Beginning" but rather a point in time where matter collapsed on itself, and expanded again at a certain point. Mormon Doctrine, it would seem, would not find any issues with the creation process being recreated again and again throughout the process of the Big Bang.

4. It seems that Mormonism does believe in alternate dimensions (the Spirit world in fact being on our own world occupying the same space). Through "natural" phenomenon that we do not understand, the concept of multiple universes within a certain space (something that has some theoretical truth to it) is a reality in Mormonism. If this is a true concept, then it is not so supernatural, as it follows theories of modern day physics.

Most LDS individuals do not believe that God is finite in lifespan, knowledge or Power. He has infinite capacity for creation, and infinite resources to accomplish this task. They also believe that there are types of Matter, of which we do not have a full understanding, that is eternal. We are in fact eternal beings, whose substance will be as eternal as God's is (regardless of our actions on this earth). We believe that all Mankind will be immortal (after their resurrection), and further they have the capacity for eternal increase, based on their willingness to accept certain truths. We are only "damned" by our refusal to accept eternal laws and truths, but that does not mean that we will not be happy in the hereafter if we do not do so.

It just means, in Mormon Doctrine that, progression at some time for some people will stop, based on their desires not to move any farther in their progression or the inability to follow eternal laws. Their only unhappiness is that they did not reach their full potential. Man can go as far as he is able, this is the ultimate in free will.

But all of these concepts are based on faith, and I freely admit that I might be dead wrong on these concepts. But as an atheist, you would at least acknowledge that some of these issues (the beginning of everything, the Great Cause, what started it all) are unknowable to everyone, so we are all basing what we believe to a certain extent on Faith (in scientists, prophets, observers, or God)?