Mousetrails - The First Holy War - Page 28 of 29

Greetings, Keith You obviously did an amazing - Page 28 - The Bible Revealed - Posted: 11th Jun, 2010 - 10:17pm

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Author: Keith Stephens
30th Jul, 2008 - 5:21am / Post ID: #

Mousetrails - The First Holy War - Page 28

All Bible quotes are from the Douay-Catholic Bible

Sitting in the examining room with my doctor, I heard him say, "You need open heart surgery." He told me if I was afraid to wait, the hospital would take me as an emergency case; but it would be fine if I stayed quiet and waited for an opening in 22 days. I went out and sat in my car with tears in my eyes, thinking, "Why me?"

At that time I handled everything with anger, even open-heart surgery. On the way home the tears dried, but the anger was still there for me to deal with.

My first wife and youngest son lived with me one half mile from the nearest neighbor. When they left for work and school, I was alone while waiting for the 22 days to pass. For the first time in years I began to read. When everything in the house had been read, and only the Christian Bible remained, my first thought was, "No way. I"m not reading that thing!" But boredom finally got the best of me, so I started at the beginning knowing there was plenty of time. After the first few chapters, something began to tug at the back of my mind. The more I read, the more the slaughter bothered me. God stood by while Moses ordered the Levites to

QUOTE
...go up and down the camp, from gate to gate, and slay your own kinsmen, your friends and neighbors!"

One of the most famous battles in the Bible was ordered by the God of the Jews, and Israel followed instructions
QUOTE
...by putting to the sword ALL living creatures in the city; MEN AND WOMEN, YOUNG AND OLD, as well as oxen, sheep and asses.

So I began to wonder how many people died in this carnage. Other things bothered me too, but soon it was the day for surgery and recovery and the time for getting my life back to normal.

But the old "normal" was not to be found. I did find that in spite of all the things I wanted to resume after recovery, there was little, or no interest in most of them. Things that I thought I wanted: my farm, my other business in town, a 30 year marriage, nothing was as important as before surgery. I don't know for sure, but my sudden realization that I was not going to live forever probably had a lot to do with my change in attitude. It was quite a shock to realize I felt that way. I had to go through a second bad marriage, and some very hard times before meeting Anne. Her attitude was infectious, and soon I was happier, and looking forward to playing with her computer. For 12 years, I had occasionally told myself that I was
going to return to the Old Testament and explore it in depth. Anne, and her computer made it fun and interesting.

I had discovered a very convenient way to record a numeric record of my findings. At first it was just an interesting thing to do, but the more numbers I found, the more I wanted to know about other things. As my interest rose, my new wife jokingly referred to my research as "The Body Count," but other facts began to surface. I couldn't believe what I was reading. God made specific laws about Jews owning slaves, but the law held very little difference if a Jew owned a Jewish slave. God never once healed a human being He created. His answer to any sickness or disease was to send the ill people outside the camp, to come back only after they were well. And married women were just so much property, but the virgins were highly valued.



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31st Jul, 2008 - 6:16am / Post ID: #

War Holy The Mousetrails

All Bible quotes are from the Douay-Catholic Bible

When I could no longer keep these findings to myself, my main concern was that no one would believe me. I decided that for my thoughts to be believed, they would have to be confirmed with each new finding in as many different locations as possible. Because the Bible was my historical reference, I made some very simple ground rules for myself:
(
A) take the Bible exactly as it is written;
(cool.gif do not change a letter or a syllable;
© do not add facts that are not in the Bible;
(D) do not believe one sentence or paragraph and discount another;
(E) read it as it is, a window to the past - the greatest ancient history book ever written.

I listened all my young life while preachers took a passage from the Bible, added facts and suppositions, or put themselves in the sandals of a Biblical character; then made the sermon last well into the Sunday dinner hour. Another trick commonly used was to jump from one reference in the Bible to another, using unrelated notations to prove a point. My childhood years were filled with hell-fire,
damnation, and brimstone. I don't know why I didn't believe it (hellfire and damnation) then, but I DO know why I don't believe it now.

I have come to believe passages in the Old Testament of the Bible that have never been heard in most churches. The preachers never told about God's anger, or His Book of Wars. They never read about the God of the Jews not being recognized by His own commander when He showed up for a fight in full battle dress. No one ever told me about His ignorance of the human body, or that He could fly. In Sunday school no one ever mentioned His hunger for gold and silver. No one ever added up the number of people that were killed. Only after much thought and some concern about what people would say, have I decided to put my research and thoughts on paper.

I believe the Old Testament is a collection of living history stories passed from parent to child for hundreds of generations. Some facts were embelished, changed, or lost in the telling, but the origin of most of the stories was based on actual facts and events that really happened. Except for the period from Adam in Genesis, to Josue in the book of Josue, there is much consistency in Biblical story line and facts from archeological digs in the Holy Land to support my ideas. Some of the world's leading scholars discount any Jewish history before Israel occupied Chanaan's northern highlands about seven hundred B.C. This is primarily because archeologist have not found any Israelite artifacts from a period before seven hundred B.C. However, on a victory stele (1) erected in Egypt about 1210 B.C.,
Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah, commemorates the defeat of several enemies in Chanaan with the phrase, "ISRAEL IS LAID WASTE, HIS SEED IS NOT."

On the stele, "Israel" is followed by a sign for, "people." William G. Dever, in the March 2000 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, wrote that this is proof that Israel was already known as a distinct ethnic group. I would submit my humble opinion, that the time period from 700 B.C. to 1310 B.C. was when Abraham,
Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Josue were leading God's people. They were nomadic shepherds; so they would have left little mark on the land for an archeologist to find. The Bible minimalist will probably discount this idea, but I discovered my findings agree with Mr. Dever's. Many thanks to William G. Dever for his research and writing in Biblical Archaeology Review magazine. He spurred my desire to learn even more.

I started my biblical research by counting the people who died. Some of the numbers are a carefully calculated guess. The number of people killed when the city of Hai was wiped out was 12,000, (Josue 8:24 ) so I use 12,000 as a calculated guess when a city is wiped out with no figure given. A great slaughter is 50,000 people, ( 1st Kings 6:19 ) so I use 50,000 when the term "great slaughter" is used, with no amount given. In (Numbers 25:8) just a common
slaughter is only 24,000, but I do use that figure at times when God orders a slaughter and no amount of fallen is given. My discoveries were unfathomable. I discovered that there were at least 6,548,935 men, women, and children who died because God created the Israelite nation and GAVE them Chanaan. But as I read, and counted, other interesting facts about the Jews and their God began to emerge.

(1) An upright slab or pillar of stone bearing an inscription



1st Aug, 2008 - 6:29am / Post ID: #

Mousetrails - The First Holy War Revealed Bible The

All Bible quotes are from the Douay-Catholic Bible

Time and time again, generation after generation, the God of the Jews told them He would GIVE them a land of milk and honey. I refer to this statement as, "The Promise." Several times He is seen as an ordinary man. I call that chapter, "Seeing God." He told the Jews repeatedly what food to bring and how He wanted it prepared: "Oblations." He was always angry and many times killed His own people: "God's Anger." And so I began statistically categorizing Biblical events. When I read about some new sin, or killing, happening several times, and the facts didn't fit the profile of the God I learned about in Sunday school; I would go back to the beginning and start again, recording the event each time, and placing it under a new heading. When I was through with my research, there were many headings. In the Beginning, Seeing God, God's Gold, Body Count, and God's Army, are just a few.

I also learned God ordered genocide, never healed anyone, had a blood fetish, and killed thousands of Israelites in anger. I now have a vastly different mental profile of the God of the Jews than the one I learned about in church as a child. The Bible I used as reference is the Confraternity-Douay version. I found this Bible to have very little difference from the New American Standard Bible except it has more books. Many of the names are not spelled the same in all translations. For example, you may find that Noah, or Noe, built an ark that survived the flood. If you compare whole passages, you will find little difference as the following examples show.

Confraternity-Douay Edition

QUOTE
"Maceda, too, Josue captured and put to the sword at that time. He fulfilled the doom on the city, on its king, and on every person in it, leaving no survivors. Thus he did to the king of Maceda what he had done to the king of Jericho." (Josue 10:28)


From a Stephens Family Bible 116 Years Old
QUOTE
"And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof. He utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; He let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he had done to the king of Jericho." (Joshua 10:28)


American Standard Bible
QUOTE
" Now Joshua captured Makkedah on that day, and struck it and its king with the edge of the sword; He utterly destroyed it and every person who was in it. He left no survivor. Thus he did to the king of Mekkedah just as he had done to the king of Jericho." (Joshua 10:28)


The wording is a little different but the meaning is still the same. In (Josue 10:8), God tells Josue not to be afraid because
QUOTE
... "I have delivered them into your power."

With God's help every man, woman, and child in the City of Maceda was annihilated. A city and 12,000 of its inhabitants were wiped from the face of the earth; GENOCIDE.

I"m going to paint a different picture of this God that ordered genocide than the one you hear about in church. I"m going to show you a God who could fly above the earth and kill thousands of humans instantly. This God was angry, vindictive, and gold hungry. He chose what He ate, how it was to be prepared and who would
serve it to Him. His own rules and laws prove beyond doubt that He knew nothing about the human body He was supposed to have created. I will show you a God who walked with, wrestled with, and argued with man. He was obsessed with blood and demanded blood sacrifice often and regularly. He ordered the Jews to tithe,
then told them how much to "give." He was an extremely jealous God who insisted that His people have no idols and no other gods before Him. He appointed military leaders, formed and directed His own army, and had grandsons born to the daughters of man. This God promised time after time to GIVE the Israelites a land of milk and honey.



2nd Aug, 2008 - 9:01am / Post ID: #

Page 28 War Holy The Mousetrails

All Bible quotes are from the Douay-Catholic Bible

Then this, "milk and honey" God of the Jews, the God of the Old Testament of the Christian Bible led them to the bank of the Jordan river and in (Deuteronomy 7:23-24,) ordered GENOCIDE. Generations later in (2 Kings 8:10-12,) when King David gave Him the last of the gold, He told the Jews in (4 Kings 24:20,) he wanted nothing more to do with them and disappeared. But the God in the book of Kings is not the God of Genesis. I will point to the exact day when the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob died or lost control, and His son or someone close to Him took control of the Israelite nation. Follow me through The Old Testament and I will show you not just two, but three Gods.

I will not argue with the New Testament. I cannot possibly disagree with anyone that did as much good as Jesus Christ. But how anyone could place the New Testament with its message of healing and brotherly love with the Old Testament and all it's hatred, greed and killing under the same cover and call it a, "HOLY BIBLE" is more than I can imagine. When you try to compare the God of the nation of Israel and Jesus Christ, there is no comparison; not one. The Jews were promised one more savior. They were sure they would get another leader like Josue, Gideon, Saul, or David. A strong man with fire in his eyes, a shield on his arm, and a sword in his hand; ready to do battle with the world and put Israel and their God in charge again. Jesus Christ was definitely not their man! To tell me that a man who lived on this earth, healed the sick, did nothing but good, taught love and understanding, and never killed anyone is the son of the God that ordered the Israelites to commit genocide in Chanaan is more than I will ever believe, or accept.

For me, there is a sadness connected to all of my years of hard work. All my research, and all my writing may be totally lost on a great number of the ignorant, brain washed religious people. There are many, many people in the world today that are petrified at just the thought of doubting what they have been taught to believe, much less considering what I have written. When I discuss with them what
I have learned, at first, they are interested. But when the discussion gets serious, their eyes go blank, and in that moment they remember only the ignorant preaching of their holy-roller leader.

I am reading their own Bible to them, but the conversation is over! I joined in this exact same type of conversation with a very nice lady at the market one day. She was telling me what a great God she had. I asked her if she had ever added the numbers recorded in HER Bible to find how many people died in the Old Testament
because of her God. She informed me that she would rather not go off following mouse trails. I told her I didn't believe the death of 6,548,935 human beings could be described in such terms. She put on her best holier-than-thou face and said, "That doesn't matter. You"re just following insignificant little mouse trails!" Then she turned on her heel and was lost in the crowd. She was gone, but the
accusation stayed with me. My own daughter, Diana, worded my feelings at that moment much better than I ever could.

She wrote:

Religions/beliefs are mostly taken on faith and trust. Jesus, as a historical figure is a proven fact. As the son of God - an act of faith. So, If the person I"m conversing with is incapable of comprehending or accepting those facts, I go no further in the discussion. It is usually a sign that they are in a fanatic stage in which their ears are closed to knowledge. That's ok. I respect that. But I"m not going to waste
my time attempting to discuss the Bible with somebody who doesn't realize that they are so busy reacting and thinking of "arguments" to prove 'their point," that they are incapable of hearing.

Diana Hansen


Now, for the Bible they don't teach in church. All direct quotes from the Bible are italicized. Before you go any further, get your Bible and keep it close at hand because you will need it. It is time to begin your journey into a world the stained glass windows have never illuminated. It is my belief that you will find it is a trip worth taking.



3rd Aug, 2008 - 2:12am / Post ID: #

War Holy The Mousetrails

All Bible quotes are from the Douay-Catholic Bible

IN THE BEGINNING

I had always pictured God as a power that stood alone, creating the earth, the light, the oceans, the plants, and the animals. In all this creating, the Bible describes God alone as the Creator. He created, then saw that it was good. On the sixth day we come to the creation of man. Twenty-six verses into the first book of the Bible, we know from the wording that God is not alone.

QUOTE
God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image and likeness;" (Genesis 1:26)


The words, "us" and "our" are plural indicating God was not alone when He created the earth. They, God and the people with Him, were very careful to create mankind in their image and likeness. This is a tremendous change from God creating the earth alone, to collaboration on the creation of man. This did, however, allow God and his collaborators to mingle with man on several levels. But
however it was done, the creation of man was such a success that God's sons took notice and the following verse says they took wives from the daughters of man.

QUOTE
When men began to multiply on the earth, and had daughters born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair, and they took wives for themselves, as many as they wished. (Genesis 6:1)


In the beginning, God had more than one son that married the daughters of men, AS MANY AS THEY WISHED. If the sons of God were in fact deities, why would they lower themselves to marry the daughter of a common human being? If they needed a wife, or wives, why then did they not marry another deity? When female deities were in short supply, would they pick a likely human prospect to
take up, clean up, and dress in white robes, then add wings and give her flying lessons? Did they marry her before or after she soloed? When the wives of the sons of God had children, did they all go to heaven? Men being men, and the custom of the day was to have multiple wives, they could have had wives in heaven AND on earth. It is entirely feasible to think that some or all of these wives stayed on the earth. The great, great, great grandsons of God are probably
walking the earth today. The Bible calls these grandchildren of God, "giants."

QUOTE
There were GIANTS on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when THE SONS OF GOD HAD RELATIONS WITH THE DAUGHTERS OF MEN, WHO BORE CHILDREN TO THEM. (Genesis 6:4)


The Hebrew word for giants was Nephilim. One translation of the word nephilim is, 'the men who came down," or 'those who came down from the sky." The only being ever known to impregnate a female human being is a male human being. Since the God of the Jews had grandchildren by female human beings, then He and His sons were nothing more than mortal men with a power that was unimaginable at that time --- the power of flight.

SEEING GOD

We are reminded many times that we were made in the image of God. He said,
QUOTE
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God man was made. (Genesis 9:6)


This makes it easy for Him to appear like the humans of the day and not be recognized until He tells them who He is or performs an act they don't understand. And while we"re on the subject of misunderstanding, more than one person has told me that when angels appeared to humans, the person seeing this angel called him Lord, out of respect, so they DIDN"T REALLY SEE GOD! I would like to clear this thinking before we go any further. There is a place in the Bible where angels, and God, and the Lord, appear all in the same place, at the same time. In
QUOTE
(Exodus 3:2) There an ANGEL of the LORD appeared to him in fire flaming out of a bush. Then in (Exodus 3:4) When the LORD saw him coming over to look at it more closely, GOD called out to him from the bush, "Moses! Moses!" He answered, "Here I am." GOD said, "Come no nearer! Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground. I am the GOD of your father," he continued,'the GOD of Abraham, the GOD of Isaac, the GOD of Jacob." Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at GOD. But the LORD said, "I have
witnessed the affliction of my people in Egypt..."


First there was an ANGEL in the bush, then there was a LORD in the bush watching Moses come closer, then a GOD
QUOTE
...called out to him from the bush!

Not only was it a God, the Bible tells you exactly which God! He claimed to be
QUOTE
... the GOD of your father, the GOD of Abraham, the GOD of Isaac, the GOD of Jacob."

And why did Moses hide his face? Because, the Bible tells us,
QUOTE
... he was afraid to look at GOD.

In seven verses of the Bible, Gods, and Lords, and angels are all in the same burning bush, all interchangeable, just three different titles for a man they thought was their God. Who DID Moses see in the burning bush? HIS GOD!

In the next verse God is seen as a man by someone that knew Him well.
QUOTE
And when he [Abraham] raised his eyes he saw three men standing at a distance from him. As soon as he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent door to meet them, and bowed down to the earth, and said, "My Lord, if I find favor with you, do not pass by your servant." Then the men set out from there and looked toward Sodom; and Abraham walked with them to escort them on their way. (Genesis 18:2)

Abraham saw them first as MEN, then recognized just one of the three to be the God that he had known on a face-toface basis since (Genesis 12:1) He RAN to meet Him bowing to the earth and used the phrase, "My Lord," showing respect to his GOD that he had moments before mistaken for an ordinary MAN.

Sarai's maid, Agar, saw God when she was found in the desert by an angel she confused with God. She named the Lord she saw, the God of Vision. And then she asked how she could be alive after seeing God. The only time Lord is capitalized is when it refers to God, so she called the angel, Lord, then God.
QUOTE
"You are the God of Vision"; for she said, "Have I really seen God and REMAINED ALIVE after my vision?" (Genesis 16:13)


Jacob wasn't having a vision. He wrestled with a real person all night. Then his adversary
QUOTE
...asked Jacob, "What is your name?" And he answered, "JACOB." He said, "You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, because you have contended with God and men, and have triumphed." (Genesis 32:28)

This contest is probably the only account of a man wrestling with a god and winning. God created heaven and earth in five days. Then on the sixth day, He
created a man He couldn't beat in a wrestling match. He had to resort to trickery, dislocating Jacob's thigh to get away. I can see the headlines, "MORTAL PINS GOD IN CLOSE MATCH."



5th Aug, 2008 - 6:15am / Post ID: #

Mousetrails - The First Holy War

As I explained before, I didn't intend to start on page 15 and post a complete book, but it's done. I have come full circle and now I can rest. I have posted two books here, one fiction, one non-fiction. I have also read and reviewed the Quran, so I feel like I have earned the rest. But as I'm sure my readers have guessed, this book is my favorite subject, so if there are questions, or comments, please feel free. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has read either Mousetrails, or The Sons of God in the private boards section.

Mouse



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10th Apr, 2009 - 6:39am / Post ID: #

Mousetrails The Holy War - Page 28

It has been 8 months since I have visited here. It's almost like visiting an old friend. "Mousetrails" and I spent many, many, hours at this keyboard together. I'm overwhelmed at the number of "views." I would never have dreamed of seeing the number 7241 in the "view" column, but one thing strikes me as interesting. There are only 221 replies. Do the viewers scan through the many pages of information, discount it, and move on, or did I explain my thoughts well enough that no reply is needed. I'll probably never know.

Mouse



11th Jun, 2010 - 10:17pm / Post ID: #

Mousetrails The Holy War The Bible Revealed - Page 28

Greetings, Keith

You obviously did an amazing amount of research and work for this book and I have no doubt many Christians would find it quite troubling to read your observations and the Bible quotes on which they are based. I agree with much of what you say, though my perspective is quite different than yours.

I have actually known a lot of Biblical literalists who are quite aware of all the cruelties commanded by God in the Old Testament, but it doesn't bother them at all. A good example of this would be from Lee Strobel's best seller, The Case for Faith. In one chapter he interviews Dr. Norman Geisler, one of the leading apologists among Christian Evangelicals and confronts him with several of the troubling scenarios from the Old Testament. I won't go into any details on his defense, but it essentially boils down to "God is Supreme" and "God's Holiness demands harsh judgement" as well as "The Amelkites were horrible people and deserved their fate." So although there may be some Christians who might be shocked by what you present, there are a lot who would not be troubled by it.

Second, there is a wide range of believers, including Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, as well as many mainstream Protestant sects who do not interpret the Bible literally, particularly the Old Testament. They would insist that one has to interpret the Bible in its cultural and historical setting, not by modern sensibilities. In that time and culture, war was brutal and sometimes involved extermination. Women were treated as chattel, slavery was accepted almost universally. God was viewed in anthropomorphic terms, and human emotions and motives were assigned to him. Thus the Bible writers, immersed in their culture, and even if inspired by God to write, could only do so from their limited perspectives and thus often assigned human limitations, emotions and motivations to God.

In addition, they would hold that the Old Testament is filled with religious myths--not in the sense of "fairy-tales" but in terms of stories that were never intended as records of historical events and were instead designed to illustrate deeper truths. Genesis would be a perfect example. I was educated in a Catholic seminary, and not one of my professors who taught OT studies believed the Book of Genesis was an historical account, but rather an allegorical representation of the manner in which God created the earth as well as how humans became separated from their unity with God.

Your rejection of the Old Testament while accepting the New Testament is not a new phenomena. Marcion of Rome, declared a heretic by several of the early church fathers in the second century, absolutely rejected the Old Testament and accepted a severely curtailed version of the New Testament which included only a version of the Gospel of Luke and some of Paul's earlier epistles. You're probably fortunate you weren't born then, you would likely fall under the same condemnation smile.gif

I would like to know more of your rationale for accepting the New Testament while rejecting the Old Testament, that seems a hard choice to make. Jesus himself was a Son of Israel, I don't see evidence that he rejected any aspect of the Old Testament. The Father he prayed to was the God of the Old Testament. He quoted from it often, and the New Testament writers took pains to associate him with that legacy, including their views that he fulfilled numerous prophecies from the Scriptures. Jesus obviously revered the Temple, and even after his death, Acts indicates that the community in Jerusalem continued to worship there as faithful Jews. Even Paul, who rejected the Law, made extensive presentations from the Old Testament when on trial in the Book of Acts.

If you were bothered by God's "blood fetish" in the Old Testament, I would think the New Testament would prove even more disturbing. It declares all such blood sacrifices to be ineffective--except one. The heart of the New Testament involves the bloody torture and sacrifice of God's very son--for the sake of his enemies.

Of course, there is another approach to all of this, the path I have taken. While I believe portions of the Bible are based in historical events, I no longer believe in God so I find all such claims in the Bible to be mythical. However, I don't press my unbelief on others, I'm still searching.

In any case, I applaud you for your tremendous effort, I'm sure it will make many people examine their beliefs much more critically.



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