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Losing Our Agency

One of the presentations of General Conference today was Robert D. Hales,and he spoke (among other things) about Agency and under what circumstances we might lose that Agency.

He stated that because we have the Light of Christ that "men are sufficiently instructed that they know good from evil." (2 Nephi 2:5) He also discussed losing our full control over Agency, through sin and transgression and ignoring the Light of Christ, comparing it to prison where we wouldn't be able to decide or do what we wanted. And he said that spirit prison is probably like that.

I'm not sure why this was so impressed upon me today, but it's something I've been pondering ever since.

Have you every felt that you've lost your agency?

Agency Losing

I've felt like I've lost my agency whenever I've had some kind of addiction or bad habit. I know my agency is still there but the more you repeat a bad habit the more it feels like you're losing it.
I'm sure that spirit prison is a much worse form of this, as then you no longer have a body to try and gain control over.

Losing Our Agency Studies Doctrine Mormon

"A man can dispose of his agency or of his birthright, as did Esau of old, but when disposed of, he cannot again obtain it; consequently, it behooves us to be careful, and not forfeit that agency that is given to us. The difference between the righteous and the sinner, eternal life or death, happiness or misery, is this, to those who are exalted there are no bounds or limits to their privileges, their blessings have a continuation, and to their kingdoms, thrones, and dominions, principalities, and powers there is no end, but they increase through all eternity; whereas, those who reject the offer, who despise the proffered mercies of the Lord, and prepare themselves to be banished from his presence, and to become companions of the devils, have their agency abridged immediately, and bounds and limits are put to their operations."

( Brigham Young, in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 72)

Agency Losing

We all have given up a portion of our agency and live in that state today, right now. An extremely important teachings required to live in Zion or the Celestial Kingdom and become free is that if we are influenced by others, we have lost a portion of our agency. Although this may sound extreme or impossible, it is not.

By influenced I DONOT mean persuaded. When we are persuaded, then we still have our agency and are acting according to our own free will. When we are influenced, it means that we do not agree but feel expected, shamed, coerced, manipulated, blackmailed or influenced against what we ourselves truly want inside.

I am saying that acting according to what we want for the reasons we want is having a free will. This appears to be "splitting hairs" doctrine, and it may be from where we are in understanding and experiencing the "independence of Heaven".

Here is how the Lord described this form of controlling others.

I am referring to the minute degrees of dominion or compulsion caused by others Not attempting to persuade us but using fear, shame, guilt, hate, position, or any other tool of Satan to create unquestioned compliance.

If we simplify the above into its weakest form of control, we see that it is saying,
"No influence, (no matter how small), ought to be maintained, (whether it can be or not), by virtue of the priesthood, (because of positions/keys held in the priesthood). So, to interpret this into practicality:
- Priesthood leaders including the prophet, Christ or our heavenly parents should not expect us to obey us because of their positions over us.
- We should not feel obligated to obey anyone except our own conscience and desires.
- Parents should not enforce compliance with statements like, "Because I said so!" which is influential, but not at all persuasive.
- We should learn to listen to and recognize how we really feel when others are clamoring to get us to obey or conform. The more we can act according to our own wills and not the influence of others, the more free we are.

The failsafe is that if your free will removes the free will of others, then you are not abiding the Celestial law and do not qualify to live in a society of Free people.

The Law of Universal Application says that the principles of happiness and truth are found by universally applying only a single principle of your own beliefs on others from their view point and determining how they will act on them toward me. If I am pleased with the results, then I have found a principle of happiness or truth which will help me live in a perfect society. (THIS IS IMPORTANT for all seekers who want to live with the Gods in harmony.)

For example:
My Test Principle - God doesn't like the blacks, neither should I, maybe I should destroy them!
Apply it universally to all groups:
Blacks - God Doesn't like whites, neither should I!
Hindus - God Doesn't like the Mormons, neither should I!
Women - God doesn't like the Males, neither should I!
any other group that I might be offending or blessing, should end up offending/blessing me...

The true principle would be:
My Test Principle - God like the blacks, so should I, maybe I should love them!
Apply it universally to all groups:
Blacks - God like whites, so should I!
Hindus - God like the Mormons, so should I!
Women - God likes like the Males, so should I!
any other group that I might be offending or blessing, should end up offending/blessing me...

The reason I bring up the Law of Universal Application is that if my beliefs cause others to have less agency, then when I apply this law to others, the result is that others cause me to have less agency.
- It is ok to manipulate my children...
becomes:
- It is ok for my children to manipulate me... (Not a happy stat to be in...)


- Those whom I lead should obey me because I lead them, even if they don't agree or like it.
becomes:
- I should obey those who lead me because they lead me, even when I don't agree or like it. (Doesn't promote happiness.)

- Parent to a child - "Because I said so and I am the boss of you!"
becomes:
- Child to a parent - "because I said so and I am the boss of you!"

And to illustrate my main point...
- You and the majority say to a smoker - "You should feel guilty, ashamed and sinful for smoking!"
becomes:
- A smoker speaking with the majority - "You should feel guilty, ashamed and sinful for NOT smoking! Our religion says God wants us to smoke the good weed...'
The correct way:
- You and the majority say to a smoker - "Let's consider the effects of smoking and see if we can be persuaded to do the best thing..."
becomes:
- A smoker speaking with the majority - "Let's consider the effects of smoking and see if we can be persuaded to do the best thing..."

It equally applies to all people with the same results on me, it provides the most comfortable situation for me to live in! I would love to be part of that society! This is then a correct way to interact so that I can live in a society I like....

So, is our agency taken/given by others? Every day! If we had the choice, we would live in a society that made us feel comfortable being us. By others not persuading us and interacting with us the way we want, we know we do not have complete agency. We have to fight to have agency, which none of us likes to do.

We currently manipulate, influence each other without persuasion. This is not a free or celestial Society. Loosing our agency begins when we feel uncomfortable, (because of outside influences, expectations, obligations, duties, shames, guilts, etc.), making the choices we want to make. The very fact that we feel uncomfortable is a sign that we are being influenced and not persuaded. If we were persuaded, then we would do it happily and willingly. We would be free agents unto ourselves, uninfluenced by others. It is the Celestial way, and the hidden the way of the priesthood of God.

We loose complete agency when we are not capable of choosing what we want. For example,
- When the influential pressure of outside forces is too great for us to act against. In addition, the greater the influence, that lower our ability to choose for our selves and receive the natural consequences of God's laws.
- When our bodies influence us against our own desires or ability to choose. The greater the addiction, the lower our agency. Even Coke, the drink can take or limit our agency.
- Laws enforced with do not permit choice limit our agency. Sure we can choose against the laws, but just as the priesthood or government of God should not maintain influence by virtue of the priesthood positions, neither should the law maintain influence by virtue of the majorities opinion. Protect life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. Far too often our laws do not protect the pursuit of happiness but deny that pursuit.

We are not a free people"¦ and often times, we have less freedom in the Church than outside the church. This is not meant to be and the people of the world will never demand to be governed by the Priesthood until it becomes a haven of freedom for all people and beliefs. This is a requirement for the millennium"¦

Edited: Amonhi on 7th Sep, 2008 - 5:32pm

Agency Losing

Free agency is largely about the mind, you chain up yourself mentally and you will not move an inch to reach your potential.

Losing Our Agency

That's true Mckay. I remember the bishop telling me once that Satan will make you think that you are done for and unworthy then you feel trapped like you cant even choose to do good because youre a bad person.

Losing Agency

Rather off topic, but... Good to see you Jen--it's been awhile, hope all is well!

That is such an awesome concept to get through into our minds. Satan does not take and CANNOT take our free agency away BUT he can and DOES do everything in his power to make it seem like he can and to discourage us, so that WE give up that power to choose.

Losing Agency Mormon Doctrine Studies

Nobody can take away our agency. We can only give it away through the choices we make. It's kind of ironic.

Edited: alskann on 1st Oct, 2008 - 5:54am