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Red if you would have read my last post you would realize we are not condemning them. And Yes I know quite a few, I use to be more interested in the intellectual side of the Gospel, and never studied the spiritual side. I realized that my salvation isn't based on how intellectual I am but on how much I understand the spiritual side of the Gospel. If a person truly want's to defend the church he will seek the Kingdom of God (spiritual side) and all other things (intellectual side) shall be added. I found this to be very true.

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Of course, and you do not number among them, so why are you so aggressive? I believe that many of the newer folk are accustomed to hijacking Topics to make it a focus on them indirectly - a form of 'intellectualism' that is to say "You people do not know what you are talking about, but I do, let me enlighten all you ignorant fools".

What these newer folk do not realize is they are actually showing themselves the self same examples of the subject matter of this Topic since there are true Intellectuals and self-acclaimed ones.

Offtopic but, Nighthawk and Zelph: I wouldn't have even bothered to reply to such a Message and only left it because you both already replied.

Lds Intellectuals Studies Doctrine Mormon

In reading this I must admit it did sound like a bit of a gripe session was building up. In regard this sort of thing I often feel that we can have a tendency to see all those more into something than us as extremists and those less involved as lazy. But I agree with the overall sentiment. The thing I find as a difference between those with great knowledge and those with great loads of information is the reason motivating the study. If you study to be a great scriptorian/doctrinal genius you will fall into the trap you are referring to. If, on the other hand, you learn in a fervent desire to understand why, because of a spiritual yearning, then you will succeed. Abraham questioned the Lord in regard would he save a city if so many righteous were in it. He questioned "shall not the judge of all the earth do right?" This is the kind of reason we should have in learning. To understand justice, love and right. If we come to God in this attitude the heavens will open up to us and piece by piece we will come to understand all things (Alma 12:9-10).

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Who were you referring to?

One of the reasons I started this Thread was because there would be many so called 'Doctrine Intellectuals' who would join, and when we ask them not to do 'x' or do not spam, or do not hijack a Topic the response would be the most un-Christlike conduct you can imagine. In fact, it was not limited to profanity (yes, amazing), attacking Emails afterwards or simply withdrawal as they feel no one can tell them anything.

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I came across one of my favorite Book of Mormon scriptures last night. It read "...thus saith the Lord: Ye shall not esteem one flesh above another, or one man shall not think himself above another..."

I think this is the reminder a lot of us need in order see pride in ourselves.

I know what you mean by LDS intellectuals. There are those who have a comprehensive and very cognitive understanding of LDS history and theology who lack a more fundamental testimony. It's unfortunate.

But there are many who have learned a lot based on doing their best to come to know the gospel in a complete way through intense study. There are good people who live the gospel and understand a lot of it, as well. You know, the ones that have had the Spirit and a lot of hard application of gospel teachings educate them.

I think you need to listen to people with attention to the Spirit. Sometimes things that sound intelligent really are based in true principles and have righteous motivation.

I've often tried to express things I've learned in private to a general audience and not felt it come out the way it was in my heart. It sounded "reasonable" and "intelligent" but not as earth shattering and profound as it had felt. I feel that was because I was attempting to teach those who were not in my stewardship, or who had not solicited my insight. It was a mistake, but not based in pride.

I think the important part is based in that scripture. Consider your motivations. Are they to promote yourself as above another? Consider other's motivations. Are they trying to promote themselves? If they are, there is no sense being offended for those who are deceived, only don't buy into it, yourself.

Finally, I think it's as much of a mistake to judge others for their weaknesses towards filling a need for admiration as it is to have that weakness, maybe more. Each is esteeming one flesh above another.

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Wonderful council deleens.
As of recently I've feared of becoming such a person. Only because I've found myself surrounded by others who are the same way. I realize now I must work on my spirituality, so as not to turn out such a way. It's unfortunate these "hypocritical LDS Intellectuals" do exist, and even more unfortunate when it leads them to apostacy. It's sad to see. Knowledge is a wonderful thing but the only source we can be 100% sure of it's accuracy would be from our Heavenly Father.

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Yeah, it's like my husband jokes about someone we know who has left the church. "It's a good thing he's so much smarter than us."

It, of course, makes me sad. But the arrogance factor isn't something you can fix by being irritated.

Lds Intellectuals Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 3

I like the comments. In regard your last question, JB, of to whom am I referring; your last comment was more revealing of your thoughts. You suffer that same problem we males all seem to suffer more than females (generally speaking): An inability to say what we really mean. Now that you have expressed where you are really coming from I sympathise with you. Certainly arogance and being intollerant of others can come from obtaining information. There is a difference between being learned and being intelligent. Love is essential for the second but not required for the first. It is always a challenge to deal with those who oppose us, as you are experiencing. As Christ said, anyone can love those who love them, it is those who can learn to love those who treat us as enemies that are where it's at. The worse a persons sins the greater their pain within (don't ever be conned into thinking that a person doesn't feel it just because they have convinced themselves they don't). Have sympathy, mercy and love for them. It is a challenge but imagine the person you become by overcoming. This challenge is actually a blessing to you, though it won't seem like one at present.