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I saw some replies about "most of them do not do something basic as "Home Teaching". Well do you all know most of the intellectuals? That is a very bold claim to make considering we may only know a few intellectuals. Please do not over generalize everyone who you feel fit in such categories. I think that is not fair.
I think that the low home teaching numbers in the church have more to do then intellectuals. We need to be careful in making scapegoats for our faults and frustrations. Everyone has their weaknesses and gifts. I just find it interesting that we rather point out others weaknesses instead of their gifts. I do not consider myself an intellectual. (what ever that definition is.) But I consider myself a student, a learner, who has many faults within the gospel, so I get suspicious when I see others putting separation from another member based on what the other "does not do."
There are a lot of great thinkers in the church, they may not have the whole gospel in their grasps, but neither do we. However they try, and they have their own path to take, and we should be respectful of that path, just a others are of our own travels.

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Isiah53, although I understand what you are 'trying' to say, I would say add to the end of that "In my opinion...". This is a mature minded Community where Discussion takes place about many issues, this one happens to be about those who consider themselves 'Intellectuals' and yet have missed the whole point of their studies.

If a Member has seen something evident as a pattern then they have every right to state that, you on the other hand have no right to state what should and should not be said. If you do so, then you forget a fundamental purpose of this Community and of course basic Discussion. I suggest you read the 'Read Me' Thread within this Board as well as our Constructive Posting Policy.

For me, I have seen many a person coming on here and in person who claim both a higher intellectual state in mind and demeanor and yet have a 'gutter' attitude towards the basic elements of the Gospel. This may not stem from being intellectual of itself, but it does not disqualify their claim to such, and that is the point of this Thread.

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Red said:

With all due respect, your statements has nothing to do with this thread. Have you carefully read what the topic is about?

Isiah53 said:

That statement was given by me and if you read properly you would see that I paraphrase what it was written in another web site. Look carefully at my reply:

Offtopic but, QUOTE I just find it interesting that we rather point out others weaknesses instead of their gifts. I do not understand what this statement has to do with the thread, but what can I do is that through open discussion we can find out many things and may be improve a situation. As President Hinckley said "I am not asking that all criticism be silenced. Growth comes of correction. Strength comes of repentance. Wise is the man who can acknowledge mistakes pointed out by others and change his course." I think as members, most of the time, we failed to understand this. We think that when we may point out what seems to be a negative attribute, we are quick to mention we are not judges and that we should see the best in people. Even though these two statements are true, we need to understand that only when we analyze a situation, when mistakes are point out and corrections made is where we will find growth.

I do not understand what this statement has to do with the thread, but what can I do is that through open discussion we can find out many things and may be improve a situation. As President Hinckley said "I am not asking that all criticism be silenced. Growth comes of correction. Strength comes of repentance. Wise is the man who can acknowledge mistakes pointed out by others and change his course." I think as members, most of the time, we failed to understand this. We think that when we may point out what seems to be a negative attribute, we are quick to mention we are not judges and that we should see the best in people. Even though these two statements are true, we need to understand that only when we analyze a situation, when mistakes are point out and corrections made is where we will find growth.

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First let me apologize to anyone that feels that my remarks were inappropriate for this community. I am not advocating what one can and should not be said, nor how to think. I think everyone has a right to what they feel and to express it. I just wanted to point out that their is always another side to what we think, and see, and that we should be careful not to overlook that. It is just been my experience in the church that we need to not label others, for we do not know their pains, sufferings, and experiences even when they promote a pattern that may be offensive to us. I just feel that perhaps we (Myself included) are more willing to swing the sword at those who offend our understanding of the gospel. On the other hand, I feel that your observations, and experiences are valid, if they were not I would have not replied into the thread to help promote a better understanding and shared experiences to better all of us. I am in no way saying that such people do not exist, nor that they do not need correcting, I guess I am just promoting charity towards such people even if we feel that they may not deserve it. I myself fall victim to this as well when dealing with others.

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This Thread is not about trying to correct anything, it is merely Discussion. Each Thread has a focal subject and we stick to it so that it does not go into off topics. In Discussing these things we learn either how to be or how not to be. Those that feel something in these Discussions may be touching an aspect of their lives and it hurts may either change for the better or the worst - thus they are not labels, but a means for Discussing.

There are many LDS Intellectuals in the scriptures. Off the top of my head I can remember Oliver Cowdery... we know this through Church History - not because someone wanted to label him, but because it is food for learning.

Offtopic but, I will once again ask that you read the Read Me Thread of this Board and the Constructive Posting Policy. Believe me, it is evident who has read it and who has not by the way they answer posts here.

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Red, it's not that we're putting them down. If there is an intellectual they do add a lot in defending the church. My point is that the intellectuals need to focus more on the spiritual aspect of the faith, then on facts and figures. Myself I am an intellectual and spiritual person. I can defend the church using facts and figures, and still have a deeply spiritual side. The intellectuals we talk about are those who don't look at the spiritual side.

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And do a single one of you even know one intellectual? You talk about spirituality but you all certainly don't display it by condemning others who you don't even know a thing about. That only demonstrates ignorance and irrationality. Try walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. And anyone who changes his life based on a blog, I'm sorry to say, must not have a firm understanding of much anything.

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Yep. I've known a couple of these types of "intellectuals". And they certainly didn't have any sort of spiritual testimony. I have known some who were so intellectual that they became self-proclaimed apostates.

And the only person condemning anyone is you, condemning those of us on this forum, who are discussing an aspect that we have seen or heard about. We aren't naming anyone and saying that they are so intellectual that they must not have a spiritual testimony or anything like that. Quite the opposite.

I attended BYU. Some of my teachers were extremely intellectual. Most, if not all, of them were also very spiritual. Hugh Nibley was extremely intellectual and extremely spiritual.

From what I have read, D. Michael Quinn is extremely intellectual. I don't know about his spirituality, except that he was excommunicated for some of his writings. Having read some, I suspect that he let his intellectual understanding of history overshadow any spiritual testimony he had of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, although I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a lot of that impression comes from the fact that most of us only see him through the eyes of the Church press reports.

The point is, this is a discussion. A place for people to talk about what is happening in the world. In this case, it is about what is or may be happening some places in the Church. Why are you so offended at our discussion?

Offtopic but, Red, when are you going to update your profile so that the annoying "frog" isn't in each post?