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Confession Is Not Secret - Page 2

Okay, let me put other scenario that comes from another thread within this board:

Trinichic:

First of all, thanks for answering my question. Now, it may seem to me that confession should be only a part of the process of reconciliation, after all, just saying you are "sorry" is not enough since a lot of times the damage is done to others. What about restitution? Do the Catholic Priests ask these people who have commit serious offenses for some sort of restitution besides just praying?

Trinichic:

Let's put an example: a guy goes to his Priest and confesses that he is sexually molesting his own daughter. He swears he will not do it anymore but as the time passes, every month he shows up to the Priest and confesses that he continue doing so. Now, since the Priest have vowed secrecy, how does he handle issues of that nature taking in consideration that a young child is suffering abuse and that the guy seem not to stop the behavior?

Edited: LDS_forever on 12th Aug, 2006 - 4:26pm

Secret Not Confession

My grandmother is a devout catholic. She says a priest should not ever have to be in the position to give that information in the first place. The reconciliation starts with confession, but if he has committed a crime, part of the reconciliation would be to turn your self over to the law. This puts it in perspective.

However, some crimes the priest should turn them in if they don't. He should give them the chance first. However, in cases of murder or child molestation or rape, someone should not be able to just confess to a priest and get away with it, he should have to face his victims in court and suffer the penalty for his crimes, confession or no. My grandmother disagrees and feels that since the priest is an intermediatory between the confession giver and god, that it doesn't involve the law and god will take care of it. I of course completely disagree.

Confession Is Not Secret Catholicism Studies

Okay, I've separated LDS' questions into three parts:

1) Yes - as I believe I mentioned previously, the sacrament of reconciliation involves more than just confessing and saying "I'm sorry", just as the priest's role involves more than just listening.

2) Even with less serious offences, such as my bad tempered example, priests do ask us to make whatever restitution is deemed necessary, besides just praying. This can involve anything from admitting your offence to the wronged party and apologising in person, to joining an AA group to family counseling, or turning yourself in to the police. If you do not do the required 'penance' then you do not recieve a full absolution - though this part is between the person and God.

3) Considering your scenario, allow me to present a new perspective that you perhaps haven't considered. A person going to confession, obviously wants forgiveness. If this person is coming in repeatedly, month after month with the same sin, it's highly likely that he's also making an attempt at doing his penance. If his penance involves family counseling (and it's highly likely it would) then there are also trained professionals involved - whose job would include reporting a continued unhealthy situation to the police.

Therefore, while the priest still cannot break his vows, there are still safety measures in place which would help the child.

Page 2 Secret Not Confession

Hmmm...I do not think we can be sure of that. Only the person knows. Maybe he/she just feels guilty and feels that needs to talk about it. I do not think we could assume that they are always looking for forgiveness.

If the person comes month after month with the same sin, it is obvious in my opinion that he/she has never truly repented in the first place since in the process of repentance, abandoning the sin and do it no more is a test itself of truly repentance. So I really do not know what you mean by the person making an attempt at doing his penance. Anybody can go to a Priest and confess a sin, it is not a real sacrifice at all, specially if you have become so blind and you are doing so much evil things that you become "pass feeling".

Good. What about if he does not do his penance? What about if month after month he describes to the Priest the horrible and unspeakable things he does to his daughter? Are you saying that month after month the Priest is listening to all that, knowing a kid is being hurt day after day and he just counsels the guy with the hope he will do his penance? With all due respect, isn't this story sound like the Good Samaritan? I am sure that the Priest and the Levi that passed before the Good Samaritan when they saw the guy laying on the ground and hurt thought that someone else would help him, maybe they even prayed for him yet only one man was willing to take real action in such event, saving the guy's life.

Secret Not Confession

LDS, what I think confuses people is this:

If a priest realizes that the person coming to him is not doing their required 'penance' - therefore they are not receiving absolution from God - he can refuse to hear the person's confession within the framework of the sacrament of reconciliation. If he spoke to the person outside of the sacrament - he is not bound by any oath.

If for example, he insisted as penance that the person join a support group or seek psychological or pschychiatric help, but the person neglects to do so - not doing it is a sin as well.

Believe me LDS, going to a priest (who is still a man) to admit your deepest failings is not easy... I've been doing it since I was 7 and it's still not easy for me - I don't see how it could be for a person with a major problem.

Let's think about it. If a person is abusing another - be the other person adult or child - and knows they are doing wrong to the point where they want to talk to someone about it, then they are already making a step in the right direction if they have gone to a priest to confess it as a sin. If they do not do their instructed penance, they have a further burden of guilt... would they keep coming back if they have no intention of following through?

I think alot of the times, abusive people rationalize these things somehow so they don't think they're doing anything wrong at all - so they wouldn't bother to mention it as a sin to a priest anyway, would they?

Edited: trinichic on 14th Aug, 2006 - 2:30am

Confession Is Not Secret

Trinichick, I think you are missing the point I am trying to make. My whole issue in the example given is the poor little girl who is a victim of sexual abuse by his own father on a daily basis. You are just focusing on the guy, I am focusing on the real victim who is in danger of losing her life every single day, even though an adult (the Priest) knows exactly the situation yet indirectly allows this abuse to continue by not reporting to the authorities. It seems like the vows are more important than the real Christian act of saving the little girl's life. I do not wish to be disrespectful but the Pharisees at the time of Jesus were similar, focusing in the strict law yet missing the whole point.

Confession Not Secret - Page 2

Unfortunately LDS, I really think that you are missing my point.

Simply put - an abuser is hardly likely to confess in the first place. People don't go to confession, just for a chat. People with major sins generally avoid it like the plague... or go to a church where the confessional is screened - adding anonymity to the mix (ie. the priest doesn't even know who he's speaking to).

This is why most churches include outreach programmes, children's and youth groups, free counselling, legal aid, etc. for anyone in the community who needs it.

Looking for a scapegoat in the priest is highly unfair, since if the same man confided in a lawyer, that lawyer would very likely still defend him in court. I'll say it again - if the priest were to break his vows, nobody would respect or ever go to confession with him in the first place.

Confession Not Secret Studies Catholicism - Page 2

I have to agree with trinchic, what happens in confession stays there and if this were to change in ANY WAY it would render the sacrament useless.The argument That LDS is using is heartbreaking and the idea that the priest would keep such a fact to himself seems inhuman.This must tear the priest in half and put him in a position that nobody would envy but the fact remains that he has taken his oath and cannot disclose it.If we start changing what the priest can and cannot keep secret in confession it will lose all meaning.