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Echelon

I have recently found out about a international system of intelligence. It is called Echelon and is purported to involve mutiple bases in Australia, Canada, US, Australia and others.

The purpose of Echelon is to spy upon people's phone calls, and internet usage to supposdly stop terrorists. I think that is crap, it really is to gain more power and abuse the citizens of the world.

Echelon

First of all, let's see some REAL evidence of such an organization, before you go off about it. Who is reporting about it, how credible are they, etc.

You are getting all worked up over a rumour. Until there is some credible information, it appears that it is probably just a conspiracy theory.

Echelon History & Civil Business Politics

You would be interested in this article from the Seattle times.
https://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/home/

I hope that I did that link right. There is also a listening post in Albuquerque that I know of. The Largest is supposed to be in the English countryside. How else did you think they monitored communications?

Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Echelon

I thought we were through with alien housing, nightmare hall, experiments with half human-half animal genes, and humans in cold storage.

We all know George Bush is listening to my wife give me a grocery list, or some teenager asking for a date, or maybe some guy asking about the availability of a car part. Give me a break. I worked in communications for years. Whoever is being paid to listen for terrorist doesn't give a darn about your personal life, or abusing the citizens of the world. They have to listen to a lot of garbage to find what they're looking for. They don't care about yours unless you're out of line.

Personally I don't have anything to hide, so they can listen all they want. Anybody that has something to hide could just stay off the phone and make their plans to kill humans in great numbers by mail. I believe it's still illegal to open your mail.

And before you try the Seattle Times, be sure to have an account.

Edited: mousetrails on 11th Oct, 2006 - 3:21pm

Echelon

Oh, I know that there are listening posts. I even know for a fact where some are, since I was peripherally involved while in the military. What makes me laugh is the incredible conspiracy theories that abound about these things.

Yes, there is a program in place, where international telephone calls are sampled. There are very strict rules in place about what can, and can't, be done with them.

However, there are SO many international phone calls being made every minute, just connected to the US, that it would take literally thousands of people, if not tens of thousands, just to keep up with them. And that is ONLY the international calls. It is absolutely ridiculous to think that such a program could be of any use within the US. I really doubt that over 1 million people are out there working for the government listening in to phone calls all day long.

Heck, on a slow day, I only make 10 or 12 calls for work. Multiply that by 20 or 30 million white collar workers, and you will just begin to see the enormity of what you claim is happening.

Hey, if it is conspiracy theory day (which this thread is DEFINITELY talking about), then I have a favorite. My theory is that there are lots of kooks running around claiming that George W. Bush is involved in all sorts of conspiracies, in order to draw attention from the REAL and PROVEN conspiracies out there - Islamic Fascism, European Anti-semitism, Communism, Socialism, and all the other overt attempts to take away life, liberty, and property.

After all, if you are spending all, or even a lot, of your time digging up information on "Echelon", then you probably aren't paying attention to the plots to bomb buildings, smuggle in nuclear weapons, spread diseases, or any of a number of other attempts to destabilize Western Civilization. Or, maybe the kooks spreading such conspiracy theories ARE aware, and trying to help with the downfall of civilization. After all, aren't most of these theories being spread in an attempt to destabilize the government of the US, in order for anarchic forces to bring about "a better world?"

Echelon

It doesn't take much digging when you receive the printed newspaper, and you really don't need a million people working to monitor electronic signals when you can get some mainframe computers to do it for you. I'm pretty sure that us taxpayers have been overcharged for a few of them, I mean, I've had to sign for a couple of $300 wrenches. I also know that when you, personally, watch the Commanding Officer of a U.S. Navy Warship get on a telephone in his stateroom and tell a sales representative for a cable television company that he has $60,000 to spend or he's going to lose the money, then it's a pretty good bet that he got any channel that he wanted. Just because something is hard to believe it has to be a conspiracy? It seems to me that I remember a judge recognizing the eavesdropping case enough to hear an argument about it. There is a Signals Intelligence program maintained by this country, thats what the employees of the NSA are paid for, and the information age is the result of technology developed, in part, for this agency. That's what DARPA conspires to do. I'm sure that my laptop and this post is not a conspiracy, but then again you could, by definition, say that they are the result of people conspiring and that we are conspiring about this topic. That's just my theory.

Echelon

You miss one major point. Not even the very best supercomputers have any decent success rate in accomplishing voice recognition beyond a very limited set of words, with specific voices. You think that someone can use computers to "listen" to conversations, and make something out of it. It is impossible.

As for your other assertions, yes, there are strange things that happen in the procurement systems of the military and governmental agencies. But you are really reaching to try to make those irregularities pay for "Echelon." As I said before, it is just another conspiracy theory, like those that claim that Christians are trying to set up a "theocracy" in the United States. Any sort of realistic thought shows that the claims are clearly extremely overblown as to the capabilities of the "conspirators", who, of course, are all very shadowy people.

Oh, yes. If they want to listen in to my phone calls, they are welcome to it. I am far, FAR more concerned about the Islamofascists and the Communist Chinese and North Koreans.

Echelon Politics Business Civil & History

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but Echelon is actually a fairly easy project to track down. It was addressed to congress as early as 1999. I really hate to agree with Yellowknife since he has the most out there beliefs about aliens and conspiracies, but this really looks legit. Here is one of the better sites I have found about it, the actual presentation to congress in 1999 by Patrick Poole.

https://fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html

It lists the specific satellites being used, bases and facilities, and even its origin. It tracks it connections with its cold war invention to its connections with other known NSA programs. There is a surprising amount of data that can be verified. Enough in fact, if read completely, to be confident that Echelon indeed does exist.

Not being fully aware of what it does, I can only say that if it indeed is being used to spy on US citizens, then it is yet another blow to our liberty. I don't care what your arguments are, I am not willing to sacrifice liberty for temporary safety!