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Mormon Violence - The World Has Come To This

What are some amazing instances you have seen in Church?

Today we were sitting in a Welfare Committee meeting. Present were members of the Branch Presidency, Relief Society President and myself. The opening prayer was being said when an aggressive knock could be heard at the door. One of the Counselors got up to open the door and in stormed an excommunicated member who begun to attack the other Counselor that was sitting over an issue of some tools. Being the home teacher of the Counselor, now victim, I was well aware of the situation. The Brother, now attacker, simply had to come and collect the tools by the victim's house, but felt that he would collect it in this way. There is more here of course, but I will say no more about specific details. Anyway, an argument started that halted the meeting and the irate member was raising his voice very high. He then left very quickly to exit the Church. I was sitting down at the time and then got up because I had the curious suspicion that he was going for something, and I was right, he got a cutlass out of his car (a two foot heavy steel blade) and began to re-enter the building. The Branch President approached him and tried to stop him, but he pushed him aside. I then had to try and stop him as I saw no one attempting to take away the blade. Another Brother already in the building tried to distract him while I went from behind and pull ed the blade away as gently as I could without inflaming anymore anger. We got the blade away. The victim was now so scared he could not move and was sore afraid. The RS President wanted to go home. The meeting that started with prayer ended in shock and horror at what just took place. This is the world in which we live, a world where anything can happen, and that you are not safe in what should be one of the more safe places - a church building.

I have often noted that someone that has once know truth and put it away can become twice as dark if they allow themselves too. I could go on a lot about this, but will mention this one thing as food for thought, the RS President had this same man drop her daughter to Seminary (his daughter and her daughter are friends), but after seeing this she said "No More". Do you know who your 'Neighbor' is and their potential? If you don't, you may want to do some research, just in case.

This To Has World - Violence Mormon

I have seen a number of situations similar in tone, although without the cutlass, over the past twenty years. On one occasion, I was traveling to regional meetings with our stake presidency and another car tried to ram us and when we stopped, the driver pulled out an ammunition belt and we had to disarm her (that was a surprise) and call the police. There have been several situations where brethren have been so angry at each other that bitter words have nearly led to blows.

The work will meet increasing opposition and many who become estranged from the Church are unable to let it alone. I believe that it will get worse as we move forward. Unfortunately, not every one that is called to serve deals wisely or justly either. Each of us needs to be humble, do our best to avoid offence, and work to heal battered feelings. Let us be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves" and do our best to help the Kingdom grow.

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I perceive that you are perceptive - excellent. The above situation I feel in large part happened because the leaders did not deal with it correctly from the start. It is so much about cure rather than prevention these days that they do not see the number of 'illnesses' they are causing. Here is another experience:

Once I remember attending the baptism of the first investigator I had the privilege in baptizing. Quite a number of his non-member friends were present. The opening talk was being given by my companion on the Holy Ghost. I was taken aback when my companion used the scriptures in the Book of Mormon speaking about how the Holy Ghost told Nephi to kill Laban as an example of how the Holy Ghost can tell us to do the right thing. He had a number of issues, to the point that I feel the other side got quite a hold of him. The Mission President made him put little rocks in his shoe to keep him wise to the work. He was pained, but somehow felt glad by the 'redemption' that came from this act.

This To Has World - Violence Mormon

Well, in my country Argentina I knew a guy who was mentally challenged, he had his good days and bad days (he was under medication) and he was in fact a member! (that's something I still figuring out, how some missionaries baptize people that are mad but that's another thread). Anyhow, one day we were in an activity and he told me and a couple of people at Church 'You know tomorrow is fast and testimony sunday, I'm going to get up and say that the missionaries offered me money to have sex with them'. I was shocked and I said 'but that's not true', and he said 'Yeah, I know, but I want to see the missionaries's faces when I said'. Of course, immediately I contacted my bishop and told him about the whole thing. Sunday reached. We were sitting and I was praying this guy will not stand and say such a thing and then I see him standing up and going towards the pulpit, the bishop gets up and whispers something to him on his ear. Then the guy stands there and says 'I want to share my testimony and say: I am grateful for the water and bread in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen' and then he sat down. Wow, I was so relieved!!!!. I cannot imagine what could have happened if he actually said it.

Then another guy who was also crazy, used to come and he would coem dress as different people he portraited, for instance, he would come dress one day as a missionary, well shaved and dress and all and even made a tag with his name on and act and behave like a missionary, then a couple of months later, he would come dress as Adolf Hitler! yes, with the mustache and the accent and all!!!! and he would walk and talk like him! creepy stuff.

Another instance when my ward (then a branch) had a dance in the house we were renting, the person who was supposed to clean up, did not. The next day, it was sunday and the Stake President came for a surprise visit to the new branch, to find some members waiting outside because the doors were locked, the branch president and the counselors were sleeping!!!! The Stake President went to the home of one of the counselors with the Patriarch (who was also there for a surprise visit) and one of the counselors welcome him in his pijamas!. Then when they actually got the keys to enter, the whole Church was a total mess! balloons, dance lights and rest of foods all over. I'm sure you all can image what the Stake President talked about in Sacrament meeting, right?.

This To Has World - Violence Mormon

Wow, those are some pretty bizarre situations. I must live in a pretty boring part of the world as nothing like that happens here. The closest I ever witnessed was on my mission in Argentina. During fast and testimony meeting, a lady got up to bear her testimony. This lady had a testimony but had not been baptized as she felt it would ofend some family members who were pretty high up in the Catholic church. As she approached the stand, one of the councelors to the Branch President jumped up and grabbed her and denied her the right to bear her testimony. He said she was not a member and could not speak till she was. This embarrassed her and she walked out of the meeting never to return. The councelor was a new member himself and it was just one of those learning things.

One of the most unusual stories I heard about happened back in the 1800's in Salt lake City. Right after the closing prayer in Sacrament Meeting, a man stood up, pulled out a gun and shot another member to death. A trial was held and he was found innocent of murder because the man he killed was having an affair with his wife. Brigham Young was in support of the verdict and this man was called to be a Bishop a few years later.

Mormon Violence - The World Has Come To This

JB - I will post some other points for you to consider, due to your note on being perceptive, in the next day or two. Give them some thought and I would be very interested in the things that you and the other regular contributors have to say about them. The next day or two are very busy, and I am traveling, so it may be a day or two.

Mormon Violence - World Has To This

Gaucho, that is a far out story, do you have any references for that? Especially that Brigham would agree with one killing another right after a sacrament meeting? I just cannot see that.

Rbogart, good, but when you need to post something, just go ahead, no need to use a message to inform me of it as it is not considered constructive posting.

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Great stories!

The only really strange thing I can remember, I just barely missed.

While we were living in northern Minnesota, I was the branch mission leader. For some reason, one particular Sunday, we were running about 10 minutes late. So, we got to church 10 - 15 minutes after the meeting started. When I walked in, there was a nicely dressed woman in the foyer, and she was having an animated conversation with one of the counselors and another member. I got slightly involved at that point because of my calling.

It seems she had walked in to the Sacrament Meeting, and immediately after the opening prayer, had started to rant against the church, telling the members that we are supposed to worship Christ, not some statue on top of the temple, nor Joseph Smith. I guess that the Branch President, who was a remarkably large man, had managed to get her attention and get her into the foyer where others were able to explain that the meeting wasn't the time or place to discuss such things.

A few minutes later, she left, and we never heard anything more about her.