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Perfect Number 7?

I have heard a lot of speculation about numbers and their involvement with the mysteries of God. A lot of the following does not make sense to me, that is why I am posting this, maybe somebody here does understand it and could share some thoughts.

I have heard that the number seven is a perfect number and that God uses/used it in many ways: [ Seven seas - Seven virgins - Seven principal planets - Seventy times seven - Quorum of the Seventies - Rested on the seventh day - and much more other examples ]

How is or what makes the number seven a "perfect number"?

I've also heard that the numer of the beast is 666, because it is the closest to the "perfect number". Satan being a "mocker", uses the closest to perfect, to deceive.

However, what really makes this confusing to me, is: That there are also some examples of the number seven used in favor of bad. ( Seven demons, I understand that in some old culture they had a "seven shaped" structure to torture people ) and probably some examples of the numbe six used in favor of good. ( 12 months in a year, 12 apostles, etc.

Number Perfect

As far as I know the number six represents that which is not complete and number seven represents which is complete.

Seven demons spoken where? Also, the twelve months, twelve apostles, cannot really count since the number is twelve in itself and NOT six.

Perfect Number 7? Studies Doctrine Mormon

As I indicated before, all this does not make sense to me. I'm posting it because I've seen that there is a lot of knowledge within this forum. Maybe you all can help me understand this . . . ?

Seven Demons: Mark 16:9. Then we have "Seven Priests" carrying the arc of the covenant [why seven?] :Joshua 6:6 ( Sixth book,chapter six, verse six [666] ) -- Whatever that means ! ! ? -- I have no clue, just heard of it.

Yeah, you're right. But, I've heard it is a multiple of six, ( not of seven ). . . . . . . twelve tribes. . . .
These are only a few examples where I have heard of the number seven and six used. But that, to me, doesn't really mean anything yet; because I don't understand the concept yet. Why is seven perfect? . . . What makes it perfect?

What makes it "complete" or "not-complete"? How does six represent "not complete", How does seven represent "complete"? What decides if it is complete or not?

Number Perfect

This is off the top of my head:

Symbolic terms:

7 = Good or Perfect
6 = Less than 7 so not good, not perfect.

I believe there was more intense Discussion on this in the The Beast: 666 Thread. See if that helps

Number Perfect

I read those threads; good information there. But, I still have my original question: "What determines if seven is perfect or not?" -or- "Who/What decides/decided it"? Is it some kind of mathematical equation? . . . Is it Logic?, if so; How? Is it something else?
I have looked everywhere [in my limited capacity], and have not been able to come up with a satisfying answer [to me]. Although I learn other aspects of it; All my searches tend to "miss the target". . . . . and then again, it may be something very simple/obvious. Something that I am just flat-out missing. ( which I would not be surprised )

Perfect Number 7?

I do not know if this has been Discussed that deeply until now. I do know that numbers are significant to the Lord. You can see this by the way a Presidency or Quorum is setup with 3, 12, 24, 48, 96 and so forth. You have the 144,000, the sign 666 and many other numeric references.

I do not know if someone actually said "7 is perfect", I believe from what I remember that in ancient times it was used as a number of perfection - but for what reason I have not dived into it. Interestingly enough it is interesting that '7' would be considered perfect. I would have thought of a number like '10' (although not single digit) or '1' or '2' to be in that realm.

Somewhere here again (this might be Mature section this time) there are Threads about:

* Light and its purpose which encompasses this a bit
* The meaning of some of those numbers (individual Threads)

Rather off topic, but... LDS_forever may jump on this and get you the info you are looking for... she is good at research.

Perfect Number 7

Wes,

These are good questions, and perhaps I can help. What you are referring to is called gematrica (meaning the reckoning with numbers.). In ancient languages letters represented numbers as well. This is the case in the Greek as well as in Hebrew. I can remember in by Hebrew 101 class we learned about gematrica because it was used to count. For instance aleph the equivalent to our letter "A" is 1, and the letter "bet" or "B" in Hebrew was 2 and so forth. So for ancient cultures numbers developed to have special meaning other then mathematical significance. (in reality mathematics and language are very related especially with Hebrew, Aramic, Greek, to name a few.) Thus the idea of numerology came to be-the idea of expressed symbols of numbers. Thus to not make a very long post, Ancient Hebrews used Numbers as symbols for other ideas and meanings. Thus the number 7 was used to represent completeness, wholeness or perfection. It was the most common numeric symbol used. ( also is related to the word Shevah meaning oath in Hebrew.)

So the world being created and finished of the seventh day sabbath- which means 7 in Hebrew- is saying that the lord rested or declared the world whole, completed. Anyway here is a list of other numbers for your pleasure.

1/2 or 1/3 part means the idea that bounds have been set and power is limited. 1/3 part of host of heaven fell.

3- symbol of god head and divine involvement or influence-Thus associated with Christ's atonement. Thus 3 days Christ ressurected- showing divine influence in his resurrection.

3 1/2- half of seven thus symbolizes something that has been stopped midway in normal course.- The beast in Revelation will reign for 3 1/2 years. thus his reign will be cut incomplete or short.

6- a negative symbol conveying the idea of deficit, imperfection, or failure to attain completeness.

9- judgment, finality

10- 'all of a part" a whole complete unit existing within a greater whole.

12 Represents priesthood, right to govern

40- period of trial, testing, probation or mourning. Flood 40 nights, Moses 40 years in wilderness.

144000 a multiple of 12- meaning the same as 12 but an uncountable number. Thus 144,000 in revelation is a great multitude of priesthood bearers to many to count.

So 7 priest means covenant which is what the ark meant. Also it is a number of perfection. Thus it was a symbol of Gods words and covenants which was symbolized by the ark. Joshua 6:6 is means nothing. Why because remember verses were put into the scriptures much much later, and were put in just to help navigate them. They are not part of the original text.

This topic can get very complex because all letters have numeric meaning thus you can add up numbers or letters to get more implied meaning. Like the words for Messiah, and serpent have the same numeric value of 32 thus their is a connection between serpent and Messiah. (see Alma and Moses with bronzed serpent.) Some Jewish numerology even looks at letters and the sequence in their order in a word and how that affects their numerology. It gets quite complex. Off the top of my head a good book for this is "The lost language of symbolism by Alonzo Gaskill. He has a PHD in ancient languages and teaches I think at BYU now. His whole body of work is on numerology. You can get his book at Desseretbook.

Sorry for the long post.

Message Edited... Persephone: Please learn how to use the Quote Tags. See our Constructive Posting Policy.

Perfect Number 7 Mormon Doctrine Studies

Isiah53, Thanks for an interesting reply.

I have not yet gotten the book you suggested [I'm working on it], although did search for "gematrica" and was unable to obtain much information on it.
Meanwhile, . . . Please don't take my questioning the wrong way, I'm trying to comprehend it. So please bare with me, my friend.
You wrote:

Who is saying? are you referring to The Bible? Does this mean that "someone" in the Hebrew culture declared the number seven "perfect" based on the fact that the world was created in seven days? Or did God declare it perfect? If so,. . . . do you know of any quote/reference to this?[maybe a prophet's quote]. Is there any particular reason why the earth was created in "specifically" seven days? Why not eight? or twelve? . . . I guess where I'm trying to get is: Has the number seven had other important significance beyond/before the creation of this earth? What importance is the number seven to Diety, beyond this earth? Maybe the number seven only pertains to this earth? Do we have any suggestions?

To the best of my knowledge, all the quotes/references that I have been exposed to, on this matter [not only these ones, I am just using yours for explaining purposes]; in my understanding, are "man-made"; as we have tried to interpret the scriptures throughout history.
Example,
You wrote:

So, are you saying that "The Ancient Hebrews" appointed the number seven to represent perfection? Was this revealed to them? or were they using logic or common sense through numerology or other method?
As you said: "The topic can get very complex", no doubt; especially for a "hard-headed" like me [I appreciate your patience in advance].

P.S. How about 666? If 6=incomplete, why repeat it 3 times? Is one 6 not enough? [I know this is not about the 7, but it is still numerology].