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Reading The Quran - Page 12

Honestly, I can see the interpretation of the person reading coming into how they would react to this sentence:

It doesn't exactly say "battle those that disbelieve", so I can see a way of reading it that can suggests actively seeking battle with those that disbelieve and another way of reading that suggest that this is what you are to do when a battle with disbelievers occurs.

The part that bothers me a bit and really leaves it open to interpretation is the last part of that passage:

These 2 interpretations suggest that Allah will be happy with the slaying of non-believers and their slayers will receive favor and rewards from Allah. Now, it is not exactly marching orders, but it sure sounds like one heck of a incentive program, if you want to read it that way.

If I read this part and then think of the first quote at the top of the page, I could easily infer that Allah wants me to actively seek out and battle non-believers.

For those that want to know how to conduct themselves in battle that they find themselves in but do not actually seek out, this is a fine field guide for them to follow. For those that are looking for a get salvation quick scheme, I can see how they could read into the writings that they should actively seek out and kill non-believers to gain favor with Allah. The difference in interpretation is the difference between the millions of Muslims that lead happy productive lives and the ones that fly planes into buildings and explode themselves in Allah's name.

I would love to say that enough debating would lead to a definitive answer, but there is enough ambiguity in the text to drive a truck through and can be easily twisted to serve anyones purpose.

Quran Reading

Vincenzo there is absolutely no way to interpret these verses as incitement to violence against unbelievers for a couple of reasons.

1. 47:4 refers to a situation where the muslims have ALREADY met the unbelievers in battle. The commandments are only specific to what to do in battle.

2. "those who are slain in the Way of Allah" refer to the muslim martyrs not to the slain unbelievers. I'm afraid Vincenzo you have misread the verse. It is useful to clarify meaning by looking up other similar verses of the Quran:

The arabic is فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ a very common phrase used amongst muslims. If you understood arabic you would know that there is no way to interpret "those who are slain in the Way of Allah" to mean the slain unbleievers and hence interpret the verse as a reward for killing unbelievers.

Reading The Quran Islam Studies

I went back to read 47:4, but the site is down for maintainance. I'll be back as soon as I can access the Quran on the net.

Page 12 Quran Reading

Karbala

Muhammad has only written 3 verses and does not mention a battle.
Quran

He does not say, "Now that we have met the Unbelievers" (past tense) He says, "When we meet" The battle he is refering to has not been fought yet, so Muhammad is instructing his followers on what action to take in a coming battle.

Now, at on the chance that the reader might find me boring, I'm going to quote me when I first wrote about 47:4

As I continued to read I found 47:4 to be the only violence in the Quran. The other good thing I found out about the Quran, Allah, and Muhammad, is that they cannot hold a candle to the violence, wars, and genocide, ordered by the God of the Jews. If you read Mousetrails you will find that 6,548,935 human beings died directly, or indirectly at the hands of their God. Yes Karbala, compared to the Christian Bible the Quran is definitely a book of peace!

Quran Reading

Karbala:

There must be a way of interpreting that passage as a call to arms against the non-believers as there are many who profess to be koran reading muslims that slit non-believers throats, blow themselves and others up in the name of Allah. Where could they get such a idea? Out of just about everything that Mousetrails has reported back, there is nothing with the exception of this passage that comes close.

I am not saying that that was the only way to interpret the passage. If you read my comments, I can see how the passage could be used in such a way to justify some pretty vile acts. I can also read it to suggest that quarter should be given to captured prisoners and not a whole lot more than that. However, there are those in the religion that believe that there is a war against non-believers and this passage could be interpreted to give such cause. To you, no. To others of your religion, I would say that this has been interpreted in such a way.

Reading The Quran

Again the fallacy of non-appreciation of the arabic of the Quran is all too evident.

The Arabic word is لقيتم "you (plural) meet (continual tense)". This word can only be used for some sort of mass gathering, it has been used 3 times in the Quran 8:15, 8:45 and 47:4 all referring to meeting unbelievers in battle. There is little doubt abouts its referring to a battle situation, mousetrails all scholars of Quranic arabic are unanimous on this. Hence the verse does not apply outside the battlefield.

Vincenzo:

There is no way 47:4 can be interpreted to be a call of arms against non-muslims. A cursory glance at the arabic will confirm that.

Your argument that certain groups use the name of Allah to commit certain crimes against humanity and hence there must be some way to interpret the Quran to justify these acts is pure conjecture.

First of all 47:4 is never used by Al-Qaeda or anyone else, they aren't that stupid. They tend to use other verses. Secondly most of their justification comes from obscure traditions from books of hadith or history which are more error prone and subject to bias.

Reading Quran - Page 12

Which "other" verses do they use from the Koran? I am interested because if I type in Koran 47:4 and do a search on the internet, I do catch a lot of people that are obviously mislead. I will have to check their scholar credentials, I know. However, you mentioned other verses...so which were they?

Reading Quran Studies Islam - Page 12

Karbala

If the English translation is so pitifully inept, then why translate it for millions of English speaking people to be led astray. Your argument does not hold water.
Karbala

Any human being that straps on explosives and takes the lives of women and children is stupid! You will never convince me otherwise. It is obvious that I am wasting my time and my effort because I can never win in your eyes as long as I don't speak Arabic. I don't want to learn to speak Arabic. I will never speak Arabic and I don't care.

Now, as I have said at other times, I'm going to a more peaceful place. I won't be back here again.