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Do Most Muslims Live In A Dreamworld?

Do Most Muslims Live In A Dreamworld?

I know the title is controversial, just as most Topics are that we discuss within the Community. My main point here is that I find most Muslims that join seem to have a blinded concept of what is going on around them and in the world. Is it part of some sort of 'brainwashing' by their religion that they cannot step back and see if someone other than their Ayatollah, Imam, or even the Quran might be right in saying that there is too much fanaticism out there and that the general Islamic leadership is doing very little if any to prevent it? Or is it that they take everything personal because they are already a Muslim and they see it as a personal attack. I get the feeling that most approaches to these Topics from those who claim to be Muslim is based on the ideology of 'another' person - they almost sound like a political defender when we are actually talking about a religion that is supposed to focus on peace. Any thoughts?

Dreamworld In Live Muslims Do

I think some of them *truly* believe they are beyond learning and some of them have a different approach if they discuss an issue with a man and a different one if they do it with a woman. Well, I am not the kind of woman they MAY think has to be quiet and just listen (yeah, I am saying what I am saying because I read the "tone" of the posts). Nobody tells me what to do, even more when the person/s are not related to me in any way and we are discussing a topic in a public forum! Let's have some common sense here!

They are NOT open minded at all (despite the fact they believe they are). The fact that one can make a statement (against their beliefs) and they are ready to rip off their garments like if you have committed a serious sin, is worrisome. What would they do if I express some of my views in an open public place with only Muslims? I would probably be stoned to death. No doubt.

Some of our Muslims members are extremely passionate about many topics (which is fine for me) but do NOT pretend everyone will agree with you, neither that we hate a particular religion or country just because we disagree! Even more, do not try to force a person to say something he/she does not want to say! They NEED to learn to move on when necessary and back off a little. "Packing their toys" because the game (discussion) got too tough is silly.

Do Most Muslims Live In A Dreamworld? Islam Studies

Perhaps you may call it a dreamland, but I do have a much better appreciation for why it is such. Islam and its interpretations through Imams has done a wonderful job of control and setting down guidelines that ensure control for a long time to come. Christianity had its period of violence against all those against it, but has evolved. A splinter group is created every time there is a topic that is disagreed with from the main branch. Gays want to still be Christians and the church says no...just start another church. Women want to be priest and the church says no...just start another church. You think priest should marry and the church disagrees...just start another church. This is now done without violence. Muslims cannot disagree with the Quran, today. It is not allowed and if you do so with sufficient malice, there will be someone asking for your head. There will be violence. In some areas, simply converting away from Islam will get you killed. If there was a threat of death above me if I didn't comply, I would be much more open to complying!

Simply, in order to be a good muslim (which can be important to your continued ability to breath depending on where you live) you must obey and defend the Quran without question, because it is right and people making fun of the Quran or Mohammed are not to be tolerated or accepted. So everytime Islam is attacked, for a muslim it is like Allah saying..."are you going to take that? What are you going to do about what they said?". This does not lead to much freedom for criticism or time for unobjective thinking. Under this condition you are not apt to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes", you will be more prone to violence and quick judgement. Why Allah needs backers on earth is beyond me, since in the end he will banish the non-believers to hell? However, I can now understand why a muslim would think about the revenge here on earth. They are taught to defend their religion in anyway possible...the shaming of the Quran is not acceptable and needs to be avenged.

With all that said, I really don't expect a discussion where I will change a muslims point of view as it will be impossible in respects to religion or items that religion touches upon. It is a pretty large brush stroke to say the least. My goal is to understand their point of view. Understanding and accepting are two grossly different things! Actually, the discussions here will probably benefit me more as I run into more and more muslims in my travels. When we get into sticky subjects, I will be more aware of how far they can stray before the boundaries of the dogma kick into affect and will be able to stay clear of serious arguments. Actually, even here I will ease away from discussions that are just getting too personal. In those cases, you just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Dreamworld In Live Muslims Do

I agree but they need to respect that when someone says they do not want to continue discussing a particular issue (I do that if the topic is getting way out of hand) they must back off and NOT continue insisting on it! (harassing) This is the internet, you don't go around trying to force people to say something you want them to say! Or in few words, want to get your own way.

My personal experience with Muslims in general is that they expect you to respect their beliefs to the max but they are unwilling to do the same thing.

I fully understand they want to defend their Religion, lifestyle, etc but when their statements are absolutely against common sense or public knowledge then it means they do live in dreamworld. I can be quite critical about my Religion but I try to study to understand more why certain things were the way they were, why can't Muslims do the same thing?

In the Iran politics thread I was accused of defending a terrorist organization when I never did but was merely the wrong assumption of a poster, having said that, same poster can go and defend the awful remarks the President of Iran have given with regards to Jews and the Holocaust and that becomes acceptable, even justified? Sounds like double standards to me! "I can say what I want, how I want it but you don't have the right to do the same" kind of thinking.

This is an international forum, and we are FREE to express our views as long as we do not break the rules and policies. Sadly, some of our Muslims members think this IS Iran. Heck it's not!

Dreamworld In Live Muslims Do

Here is a wrench... maybe it can be a case of jealousy. Some may actually wish to have the freedom of religion and thought we now have but are either scared, ashamed or too distraught to admit it. I have a friend who used to be a Muslim, his grandfather was even a renown writer of Islam, but he became a Latter-Day Saint and is now active in the Church. He talks sometimes talks about the beliefs of Islam and what it has done for him, but now he seeks a new road forward. I think the ability to take that plunge has a lot to do with your location. I wonder how many Muslims in the Middle East would like to take that 'plunge'?

Do Most Muslims Live In A Dreamworld?

I have muslim friends in the US (westernized) and they have a much more progressive thought and ability to accept things that might be outside the strict teachings or interpretations of the Quran as noted by Imams. They basically have to in order to just tolerate life in the US. However, as we have seen, this is not the case in the middle east or people closely tied to the middle east.

The brand of Islam taught in the middle east, apparently, does not leave room for compromise. There is a strict code and it must be followed or there can be dire consequences!

If you are quite critical of Islam in the middle east, you can quite possibly be stoned to death or killed in some other novel fashion. Cause and effect...behave badly and die or support without question and thrive in this AND the afterlife and it after a while it wont even sound like a choice...it is what everyone should do. They can't be critical...the rules wont allow it and the consequences are great. That is the way it is now and the Imams are clinging to it for dear life. As soon as capitalism strikes these countries and it is slowly but surely, the quality of life goes up and they will want to protect that quality of life. The number of people willing to blow themselves up will diminish as the value for human life will increase. IMO

This is definitely true. I guess I dont know if respecting is too close to acceptance or the ability to think in a different direction that is against the teachings or meaning of the Quran.

Rather off topic, but... In the Iran topic, was the acceptance of the correspondent as someone fit to deliver news the same as accepting the content? If so, did the content suggest that the leaders of Iran had done things against the Quran? If the leaders did it, then that means the Ayatollah was wrong? In that case, shouldn't one defend the country and religion from this attack at any cost as taught by the Imams and the Quran? Ooops....probably getting ahead of myself of thinking too deeply into the matter. Would a normal western person hold onto such a argument for so long, when it is obvious there will be no agreement or acknowledgement of understanding the others position? Some might...but most would let it go, so that is why I was asking myself why couldn't he let it drop... That is why it tried to take the affiliations of the correspondent out of the discussion and just focus on what facts were delivered and separate them from the commentary.

This is the one thing that makes todays middle east easier to understand for me. The reason there never seems to be any ability to reach a compromise is because they are unable to compromise. Depending on what the discussion was, it could be the equivalent of denouncing the Quran and we all know what happens to those that attempt that. All muslims are in the club and if you aren't muslim then you are not one of them and you are caniving and not to be trusted.I

Rather off topic, but... Actually, I feel pretty bad for even putting the link into the Iran thread that touched off the disagreement. My intention was to discuss what was going on inside of Iran, as it's population is rather progressive in many respects and why there seemed to be an excessive crackdown over the last year against some of the populus.

Do Muslims Live In Dreamworld

Vincenzo, good Post as usual. I would say that some of them (Muslims in the Middle East) cannot, because they live under the worst kind of dictators possible - religious dictators. What makes them the worst? Well, unlike democratic republics where you have to do the do or get voted out, in the Middle East if the general populous does not believe you then you just turn to a religious book or person and get it done. Actually I do not see much difference from this thinking and that of a person like Jim Jones with his Guyanese hideout - same situation same use of religion.

My main pet peeve is this... do not come here and dream to tell us that the situation in the Middle East, the religious fanaticism and all of that does not exist - this is my main point. You can be in denial only so much and then at some point ice cold water should WAKE you up. It seems for some people that even the Arctic would not be good enough to bring them out of this dream state. I have to wonder, is this all a case of simply being brainwashed?

Rather off topic, but... You should check out the movie and / or review in this Thread: Not Without My Daughter.

Do Muslims Live In Dreamworld Studies Islam

Vincenzo:

Correct, which proves not only the ability for them to adapt to a more "westernized" society but also that once they are removed from an environment which is fanatical in the religious aspect, their open-mindedness (in some cases) expands.

That's the exact feeling I get. I also see a huge bridge between the theoretical aspect of Islam and the practical aspect. Muslims try to talk about both as strictly connected but I personally do not see it.

Rather off topic, but... Vincenzo, don't feel bad about it. Actually I brought up the link of the correspondent first (check the posts). He just could not handle ANY talk against Iran or Islam, even the mention of the word "naive" (as his views were) as well as a woman challenging his views (notice the tone of his posts to male posters and the tone he used for my posts). If I say, I do not want to talk about it anymore, just let it go! But not, when "I want my way" no matter what, if I don't get it I leave then leave! It would have happened eventually.