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Can A Lamanite Be The President Of The Church? - Page 6

Tortdog:

NOT to the extend a non-white would see it. It would be foolish for a "white" person to say they know how it feels to be called a Lamanite because they haven't experienced it. This reminds me of a a guy in Baltimore who used to say he does not have to go to Africa to see what poverty is because he sees it right there in Baltimore. I was shocked and wanted to literally laugh in sarcasm. Unless you have been in Africa, you have no clue what poverty really is. Same applies to this case. Unless YOU have experienced this "label" there is NO WAY you can see the extent of it.

Rather off topic, but... QUOTE What about a non-white in a non-white society? Wouldn't that be the reverse, and the argument would be that unless someone is "white" they cannot see the "big deal"? You mean a non-white in a WHITE society? Please explain further.

You mean a non-white in a WHITE society? Please explain further.

Church The President The Lamanite Can

So I guess that Jesus Christ could never fully understand racism, unless he is a minority. And if he were a minority, then he could not understand the reverse.

Sorry. But I don't buy that. I don't think that you have to be IN a situation to understand it.

Can A Lamanite Be The President Of The Church? Studies Doctrine Mormon

Tortdog:

You are comparing a PERFECT MAN's knowledge and experience with a regular folk?

Of course not. That's the WHOLE point about it. You (by not being called a "Lamanite" because of your background) cannot "buy" neither FULLY understand its implications. My point all along. You are NOT in our shoes, no matter how much you think you understand.

Page 6 Church The President The Lamanite Can

Still completely disagree. You seem to insist that a man cannot understand racial discrimination unless he is of that race being discriminated against. I think that's absurd. And, I think that notion is certainly racially biased itself.

Apparently, there is an exception for this rule when the man is perfect, e.g., Christ. But I think that's far too narrow of a viewpoint. I believe man can acquire Christ's ability to empathize with people in bad situations without actually placing themselves in it. I don't think that you have to be a God. You just have to be a person who cares, loves, and listens to the Spirit.

The Spirit counsels us in all our endeavors. Christ is the master teacher. He certainly can enable man to understand the travails of another without having to be in that man's actual shoes.

Church The President The Lamanite Can

Tortdog, you are not reading properly. I am NOT saying that a man CANNOT understand another unless they are from that particular background. What I am saying (and to keep in topic with the thread) is that unless YOU are from that particular background (in this case Native/South American) you CANNOT FULLY understand the implications of the label associated with the word "Lamanite" because you have NOT experienced it. I don't care how much you think you "understand" UNLESS you have been called that label, you simply DO NOT KNOW. It is NOT a racially biased statement but one of simply COMMON SENSE.

Rather off topic, but... If you are NOT Black, can you actually say you FULLY understand how it feels to be called a "N..." ? Again, Common sense applies.

Can A Lamanite Be The President Of The Church?

Well good, LDS. That's why I stated you "seem to insist" and then stated the position I was understanding you were communicating to try to close the loop. As opposed to attacking my reading skills, how about doing so in a kind manner, something along the lines of, "No, that's not my viewpoint" and then restating?

Your view is:

That viewpoint is racist. And I strongly disagree. (And I don't think it differs from what I previously understood you had said.)

Can Lamanite The President The Church - Page 6

Tortdog, you take everything as an "attack". Strange perception coming from a lawyer. We are DEBATING but I am seeing your repetitious style of "I disagree" but not adding any "meat" to why or substantiate your answer. You need to read the thread the "Art of Discussion".

That's what I was saying earlier. You mean, in your OPINION is racist and you disagree. Good.


(For everybody else):

I was called a Lamanite many times. It is a label very used in the Church (unfortunately). Hopefully one day, as someone pointed out we will no longer have labels associated with racial background but we will all be seen as one. This is a great thread that makes us think in the perceptions and labels sometimes we put on people. Hopefully, we will learn a lesson.

Can Lamanite The President The Church Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 6

I really don't think that I see a problem with a "lamanite" being the President of the Church. There is no doctrine that I have been able to find that says that this can't happen. I can see where the tribes can get involved, but as so many have pointed out the tribes seem to have only a slight bearing on your specific ancestry.

Rather off topic, but... LDS_Forever and Tortdog, you are both offtopic. I would however like to add my two cents to it. As I can see both your points I think LDS_Forever's comments have a racist tone to them. I may not be able to know exactly what it feels like to be called a Lamanite, I do know what it feels like to called a racial slur. I can equate my feelings over that statement and feel empathy based on that, and it is the same.