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Does God Exist? - Page 2

I have puzzled endlessly over this same situation, never reaching a rational conclusion. People claim that they know that God exists...but so did the Greeks and the Romans...they knew that their Gods existed, but no one still believes they do. There are too many flaws in the bible to blindly offer full credibility.

Exist God Does

Name: Helper

Comments: Yes!"GOD EXISTS" If You saw the technology and observed the complexity inside the Cockpit of the space shuttle, And knew that it couldn't have just happened by chance, Then observed the making of the Human Brain and the Human Body and marvel at its complexity and capabilities then say "THIS ALL HAPPENED BY CHANCE" We all know "WE" couldn't possibly come to that conclusion. So then, We All know that and common sense tells "US" that, "IT Took AND INTELLIGENT Being or CREATOR" In each case...Conclusion: GOD EXISTS!...HOPE THIS HELPS

Source1: Bible
Source2: Collossians: 1 vs. 16

Does God Exist? Beliefs Religious General

And what about Evolution Helper? Doesn't that explain it more coherently and satisfactorily than any Creation hypothesis? The cock pit of the space shuttle you refer to does not appear out of nowhere. It is made up of hundreds of far more simple pieces that are constructed from the bottom up to form a complex piece of machinery. The "cock pit" does not exist independently of these parts it is the whole resulting from these parts. The observer might wonder at the final result but they know that it is the accumulation of effort rather than the imposition of a fully formed creation. Similarly, as with Evolution, the space shuttles of today are the improved upon descendents of the first space shuttles from the 1960s and will be the basis from which further improved space shuttles will develop in the future.

Now I know the rejoinder here will be that the space shuttle had a designer -us- and that as such we must have had a designer too but the difference between technology and nature is that during the billions of years that Life (of all kinds) has existed on Earth it has developed to cope with its surroundings not the other way around. A space shuttle cannot adapt to a change in climate or the loss of some natural resource: Life can. Some individual species might become extinct but Life itself continues. We are the product of billions of years of evolution and change not because it was designed this way but because of many happy accidents. Had the majority of dinosaurs not become extinct and the rest evolve into birds for example, the mammals from which we developed simply would not have had the chance to flourish as they did.

So, what I think this shows is that in order for life to exist God does not. The universe ticks along without the need for intervention. Such evidence does not deter the faithful however because scientific proof is not required for faith merely the will to be faithful. I continue to be uncertain but leaning towards a humanist perspective because it simply makes more sense-to me at least.

Edited: Dougiep on 6th Jan, 2008 - 6:13pm

Page 2 Exist God Does

Name: Helper

Comments: Hi Dougiep, Don't want to get into anything heated there Dougiep. I respect your point of view, And accept it as Interesting and will contemplate on it...From what I understood from a Scientific point of view, That Simple Matter( Salt and Pepper, or Combination of Chemicals) or Things Left untouched left by itself, doesn't all of sudden, Start to become "Complex Matter" all by its self! On the Contrary, I believe it's Newtons 3rd law of Thermodynamics says Complex matter start to become "Simple Matter" if left alone or untouched, So then How can Evolution be true? Atoms to Fish to Bird to Human etc.?...Simple to Complex? ( it doesn't work that way) So then, I think Creation is much more a Viable Answer...Gen:1vs.1 IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH...Nice talking to You Dougiep...Helper

Source1: Bible Gen:1vs.1

Rather off topic, but... NOTE to Helper: Since you are going to be posting regularly, please consider joining the Community and you can make these Posts at will.

Exist God Does

Even with a scientific approach, if you play a game that annoys a parent to the very ends, one can see how a man even as dedicated to science as Einstein came to believe in at least a higher power. Just keep asking...why/where did that come from/how did that get there and you will eventually come to a spot where you say...I don't know, It was just there or God did it. This is what happened to Einstein. E=MC...2, but where did the E come from?

Sure, we got the big bang theory, but what supplied the bang. OK...a star exploded...how did the star get there. Hmmm...Black hole exploded, strayed from another galaxy, etc... OK, where did that come from? I quickly give up and say...umm..."it was from a higher power".

A few things that Einstein mused upon:

My personal favorite and one that I hold close to heart:

Whatever there is of God and goodness in the universe, it must work itself out and express itself through us. We cannot stand aside and let God do it.

For more insite on how Einstein viewed god, check this out:

https://www.einsteinandreligion.com/

While my beliefs can sometimes differ from the church from time to time, I definitely hold on to the idea that this was all created by a higher much superior power to man...God.

Does God Exist?

Name: Helper

Comments: Hi there Dougiep, Sorry, I reread Your input and would like to comment on the second part which is Specifically on Evolution Issue...I'm interested to hear your point of View on these questions ....Out of Millions or Billions of Animals Insects, and Creatures of All sorts Where? are the Fossil Evidences of These Transition Creatures? We should have "Thousands and Thousands" of Skeletal Evidence of these Half Creatures in TRANSITION... and yet "NOTHING of Real Solid Undeniable Proof " I have even heard that the Smithsonian Institution has falsely put in these Transition Skeletons....Secondly:...Why don't we see these Creatures moving or flying around us as we speak? Half Insects, dogs, Weird half creatures and things coming out of the ocean?. Thirdly: Why should Evolution all of a sudden "STOP?" as some Evolutionist claim. ..SO FAR I HAVE FOUND THAT THERE IS NOTHING SOLID TO BACK UP THE EVOLUTION THEORY and so as it "SHOULD BE" it is "JUST A THEORY" A FALSE ONE INDEED...Helper

Source1: Common Sense questions and observation

Does God Exist - Page 2

I will just start by saying I'm not an expert on Evolutionary Theory just an interested layman. However, I will try my best to respond to your specific questions Helper.

Because that is not how evolution works. Evolution considers life from the bottom up I.e our genes (the building blocks of our lives) and how they operate to continue their existence. As such it is the genes that mutate and over large expanses of time these mutations are carried forward to the following generations. It is a slow process over millennia. Therefore you will never see your half 'n' half "weird creatures" because it does not go: generation one: fish; generation two: half fish half mammal; generation three: mammal. From the point of view of our own individual life times the changes are simply not going to be apparent.

Regarding the fossil evidence you talk about the first point I would make is one or probability. How possible do you think it is that every single creature that has lived on planet earth over the billions of years life has existed will die in exactly the right place to be discovered? Not very would be my answer. Add to this that the Earth is a continual state of flux (for example the continents are moving further apart from each other by a couple of millimeters every year). Volcanoes erupt, earthquakes and Ice Ages change the landscape making fossil evidence even less likely to be retained. And lastly, scientists need to know where to look. There could be a treasure trove of evidence under a mountain somewhere that we have just never been able to access or under the outskirts of a city scientists have just never thought to look at.

Fossil evidence does exist but it is not simply this that leads evolutionary scientists to their conclusions. It was Darwin's attempt to understand where the complexity of life came from that made him reach his initial conclusions. Look at the abundance of life: it is mind boggling and far too complex to have been simply put there out of nothing. The only reasonable explanation is that one form of life formed from another, branching into different forms across time and continents. If all of life was in the garden of eden, Adam and Eve would have been eaten by a Dinosaur within seconds of God closing the gates. Humans and dinosaurs could never have co-existed, the latter had to die for the former to have a chance of flourishing. That is evolution.

As to your point regarding why evolution has stopped: who says it has? As I said, evolution works from the bottom up and the changes are not apparent to us as individuals. In two million years, our planet will be very different from today. The continents will be in different places, our climate may have changed, perhaps we will have gone through another ice age or other extinctions; maybe even another form of human will be walking the planet?

So where does all this leave God? Is he the ultimate controller of all these events? Was it all a conscious decision on his part to ensure our survival as a species? Vincenzo, you are correct when you say...the big bang...so what created that? and if you are convinced it was God who created the universe from such an explosion then okay but I wonder why an entire Universe of innumerable galaxies, solar systems black holes and so on would need to exist in order for our planet to. Shouldn't God be able simply to create Earth and be done with it if that was his main focus in the first place?

I'd write more but I feel I've gone on enough for one post. I'm not saying I completely and absolutely don't believe in God- I really truly am not sure- but I think it is possible for the universe and life to simply exist without him.

Edited: Dougiep on 7th Jan, 2008 - 1:01pm

Does God Exist General Religious Beliefs - Page 2

Dougiep, perhaps we just aren't as important as we like to think we are...

All the galaxies and solar systems...who created those or what created those. Where did that material come from to create that. If we go to a E=MC2 thought, you come down to pure energy. Where did that pure energy come from... Eventually, you have to say..."I don't know", "It was just there" or "A higher power provided it". You can chose to believe one of the first 2 answers, but you will have really come to no solution or answer. The 3rd answer requires a belief in a power that is outside of our common logical boundaries of Natural Law...but perhaps the logical conclusion.