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Vatican Suspends Monsignor For Admitting Gay Sex - Page 2

Thanks for that LDS, I was just interested. That's how I'd view it, but I wasn't sure if they would too. It makes sense when there has been so many scandals of this nature within the catholic churches.

Sex Gay Admitting Monsignor Suspends Vatican

I just wanted to pick up on this point. There is a huge gap between a man having consensual sex with other men and a man abusing his position of trust by forcing himself on a boy.

I realise that you're talking about a priest removed from his post for gay sex but I just get concerned when gay sex and paedophilia are used so easily in the same breath. They are totally separate.

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Vatican Suspends Monsignor For Admitting Gay Sex Catholicism Studies

Guess I need to clear up my post. Basically, within the Catholic Church, homosexual relations amongst the congregation and clergy is prohibited and it doesn't matter if it is gay or lesbian in nature. The church's stance on this is very clear and the clergy in particular should be well versed on this from the efforts of the current Pope in his previous position...basically he outlined the doctrine again.

The church has paid hundreds of millions of dollars around the world for clergy that has behaved inappropriately. Boys that were molested that later became men have come forth in droves. The purpose of my statement was to say that maybe the "consensual" that they are having now is between two men, but before may have been a boy and a man. Either way, within the Catholic Church, this is unacceptable behavior. By the priest admitting to these acts, he has admitted that he has failed his position within the church. The potential for this to have been a longer term relationship (which has been shown in several of the cases) that involved underaged or barely of legal aged children coupled with the fact that it is a violation of his position within the church is what has lead to his dismissal.

In many cases, the difference between pedophilia and gay sex is about a year.

In parting, a priest having gay sex with a member of the church is a priest abusing the position of trust that his office holds. This is all within the context of the Catholic Church...other churchs stance on gay sex may vary.

Page 2 Sex Gay Admitting Monsignor Suspends Vatican

I agree that that this is the official stance of the catholic church. It does not mean that gay catholics do not exist however. Even a "lapsed catholic" would still have gone to a catholic school and chapel in their youth and be aware of church doctrine.

I also agree and you are right to be angry that priests abused them when they were boys. What disgusts me even more than the inital abuses was and is how such acts were covered up even whilst they continued to take place. There are horrendous stories of abusive priests simply being sent to another parish after the discovery of his actions had been quitely dealt with.

Within the church a priest having any form of sexual relations (heterosexual or homosexual) is simply not acceptable. They are after all meant to be celibate. Perhaps it does something else though. Perhaps it makes them human?

It would be ineresting to see the evidence on this but I take your point. Perhaps the abuse does continue after the boy has reached 16 for example. However, it is still not consensual and is still abuse. Consensual sex is were both parties agree to have sex with each other. If it happens because of previous physical or psychological abuse then it is still a form of rape.

If a priest falls in love with another man ( or woman-lets be clear there are plenty of stories of priests giving up their priesthood for marriage as well) then thats life. If he has sex with him (or her) then he has broken his vows. If I were a priest who fell in love I think I would want to leave the church but perhaps some men are torn between the two? I agree with the general point that as men within the structure of the church they should abide by its rules but issues of conscience are difficult to handle. How individual priests cope with celibacy is something I will never understand and it must make great claims on their psychological well being.

That obviously doesn't give them the right to abuse children (boys or girls) but might help explain why priests may have sex with adults they fall for.

Its a difficult set of circumstances. Why doesn't the church simply allow a priest to marry?

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Sex Gay Admitting Monsignor Suspends Vatican

See that is where you and the church totally agree. If you were the priest and found yourself tempted to the point of breaking rules within the religion, you would leave. I think that most people would. The church agrees with that action totally and actually has to see it happen to stay within their own guidelines or version of religion. As a matter of fact, I think that most people would not want to become a priest and the numbers that actually do support this thought as it is probably not in the top 100 vocations. Being a priest must truly be a higher calling that what happens for most of us, as we cannot grasp the concessions that they make because it doesn't fit our lifestyle...homo or heterosexual.

This guy got on a private television show (obviously concealing his identity was not of major concern to the Monsignor) and said his consensual gay sex was not a sin. Now here is the really cherry part...he is a top member on the Congregation of Clergy. Basically, this the group that works to see that the clergy adheres to the rules, ensures the proper teaching of the catechism and makes sure that there are enough priest in all areas. They are responsible for informing the dioceses of the rules, changes and basic upkeep of ondoings of the church. One of the rules that this current pontiff worked so hard at clearly defining the church's position on was homosexuality. The Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith has clearly stated that this is a sin.

Did the Monsignor make that statement thinking that he was correct within the church's guidelines? With all the focus on this subject, that seems hardly likely. Did he make the statement not caring anymore of his office? This seems likely... Should he make the statement and get booted out...then in his mind he can say it wasn't his fault...he didn't quit...they fired me. I can see that. I mean he really has a ton of "nerve" (for reluctance to use a better word), if he thinks he can preach this and not have the church correct him. However, for this guy to get on a TV show and admit to homosexual relations, telling all that he wasn't sinning and expect to get away with this without any penalty is pure fantasy. Torn between the two or wanting to have your cake and eat it too...that will be for a higher power to decide.

By getting on that show and proclaiming what he did, he basically has dictated his own fate. Could he have handled this differently that possibly would not have resulted in his suspension? I would think he could have, but the key is that he is NOT repentant... remember he said it is NOT a sin. So it come out to be a duel between his newly found religion of freedom of sexuality and the church's long held beliefs. The church has been standing for a long time... OR It is a situation where he believes he is above the rules of the church and this is not a good thing and definitely not something I would want in a pastor.

I do hope that this particular member of the clergy was high enough that he no longer listens to many confessions, because the idea of him giving someone penance for the exact homosexual behavior that he states is not a sin really gets under my skin.

If you don't like your job or simply cannot follow the rules of your job, seek other employment. It really is that simple!

Rather off topic, but... As for celibacy, we are not supposed to understand this as we have not been selected for this calling. For us, it would be a far too huge of sacrifice. However, it does sound pretty easy to just say "let priest marry". I have thought this many times myself as I have read about priest after priest engaging in unacceptable behavior. If the church did this, it would of course be only heterosexual unions, as for the obvious position on homosexual unions. Sounds good so far... However, I have been to Rome and been to the Vatican and thought to myself...WOW...are these guys OLD! Then I was looking at a internet article about Anna Nicole Smith and her like 90yr old husband at the time and it hit me... These "old" guys around the Vatican are in pretty powerful positions and I bet many of them could get some pretty young women. I mean, you couldn't put a rule around age differences could you? Then I thought of a Vatican full of old guys and really young women and it made me think of another place where that happens...THE PLAYBOY MANSION or maybe a Hooters Restaurant in Florida! Now truly, this was my own twisted mind going to work, but you know it would happen more than a couple times. Basically, after that thought, I decided that celibacy was for the church management to decide upon. If you are thinking about undertaking such a calling, but cannot get past this rule, then think of another church, as there are some that cater to your lifestyle.

If this person was simply a member of a parish, the would confess their sins and receive a penance. They would have to truly be repentant for the penance to work and I see here this would be a problem for this gentleman. The church tried to work with priest in the past, quietly, and the result was non-repentant behavior and poor decisions that has cost the church dearly. As a result of the current pontiffs work in his prior position along with John Paul II guidance, the ways of dealing with these types of issues is not as blurry for the dioceses around the world any longer. People blame the church for doing nothing and blame them for now doing something...it truly is a catch 22 for them.

I have nothing against homosexuals. I do not pretend to understand their decisions any more than I do that of celibacy, but they do exists and there are churches that cater towards their spiritual needs. It just is not the Catholic Church.

Vatican Suspends Monsignor For Admitting Gay Sex

Well I didn't say I thought a priest who was "tempted" as you put it should stay in the church and continue to do whatever act the church frowned upon. It makes sense that he goes I was simply thinking it must put people in a difficult position.

It is clear that romantic love and sex are two aspects of life priests are required to renounce in their service to God (or the Catholic Church depending on your point of view.)

As for the priest's support of gay people, well, he is not the only one. It's true that the higher echelon's of the church state that gay people are sinful but talk to individual priests and the waters begin to muddy. They may not speak publicly about it but there is anecdotal evidence of priests who hold more liberal views on such matters including contraception and creationism.

I can't speak for the whole of catholic priesthood but neither, it seems, can the central body of the church.

Vatican Suspends Monsignor Admitting Gay Sex - Page 2

I don't mean to offend anyone, but this should not surprise anyone since there is a lot of homosexuallity among the clergy of the catholic church including the nuns. I have met people who were themselves abused by someone of the same sex while in orphanages run by the catholics.

Vatican Suspends Monsignor Admitting Gay Sex Studies Catholicism - Page 2

However, the central point would be that being gay or lesbian does not then automatically mean a person will be a child abuser. A priest or a nun need not be gay to abuse a pre-pubescent child they need only want to abuse children.

Let's be clear: pedophilia is a sexual interest in children of either sex not men or women. If a priest or nun does abuse their position of trust then it is their action not their sexuality that is the issue.