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Response Ex-mormons Jesus - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 24th Dec, 2007 - 7:25pm
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Response To The Ex-mormons For Jesus
RESPONSE to the EX-MORMONS FOR JESUS
Ogden rebuttals...
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| A RESPONSE to the EX-MORMONS FOR JESUS by Ogden Kraut [1] L.D.S. Anonymous Ex-Mormons for Jesus Gentlemen: Having just read your little pamphlet entitled, "Mormonism: Christian or Cult?", I would very much like to express my sentiments regarding your denunciations. You said that "The `God' and `Jesus' of Mormonism will not save you," but you indicated that the Jesus that you serve will save us. I am constantly amazed at all the different "Jesuses" there are--all contending against each other, all claiming to be the "real" Jesus. There is the Sabbatical Jesus of the Adventists; the Jehovah Jesus of the Witnesses; the Ritualistic Jesus of the Catholics; the Liberal Jesus of the Unitarians; the Baptist and Pentecostal Jesus; and now we have the anti-Mormon Jesus! What a babbling and contending assortment of weird ideas these modern Christian ministers have brewed up! They all preach about heaven and hell, God and the devil, yet they haven't seen any of them! But I guess it doesn't matter--they need only a $10.00 Bible to set up business anyway. Nevertheless, we were warned nearly 2,000 years ago, by the Savior Himself, when he said "many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Mat. 24:5) Then He concluded by adding, "If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or, There; believe it not." (Mat. 24:23) Most of the time I don't--and in your case I won't make any exception. You have written little "pro" and "con" inserts in your letter; and for the remainder of my letter, I would like to respond to these. I would like to mention before proceeding, however, that at times you have quoted from various contemporary LDS Church leaders as if they were absolute authorities on Church doctrine. It is important to keep in mind that they often voice their "opinions", which cannot be accepted as "official" Mormon doctrine. [2] * * * * * MORMONISM SAYS ALL OTHER CHURCHES FALSE "I was answered that I must join none of them for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight and those professors were all corrupt." Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:19. "This Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth." Doctrine and Covenants 1:30 "There is no salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670. "All other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives Baptism or the Lord's Supper from their hands will highly offend God; for He looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people. Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the whore of Babylon." Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255. THE BIBLE: The CHURCH is the spiritual body of Christian believers with Jesus at its head. That is the true church--not an organization! (Ephesians 1:22-23, 4:11-16; 1 Corinthians 1:2, 12:12; Matthew 16:18). * * * * * It is evident from the words of Christ that many would come in his name and "deceive many", and "if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." (Mat. 24:24) These are usually the ministers who "draw near" with their mouths but their "hearts are far from Him." Yet, they continue to exist and even thrive. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained: "I cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations, because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth". (T.P.J.S., p. 327) It is their doctrinal errors that make them wrong. For example, Jesus told His disciples that they should go forth teaching the gospel and "carry neither purse nor script" (Luke 10:4), which they did. Paul also travelled the same way and said, "I have preached to you the gospel of God freely" (II Cor. 11:7). But today the ministers have multi-million dollar purses to "help" them in preaching the gospel. Over a thousand different "Christian" churches all contend that they are right; but it is possible for only one to be right and the rest wrong, or else they are all wrong. [3] * * * * * WHAT JOSEPH SMITH SAID OF HIMSELF "I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409. THE BIBLE: No prophet of God ever spoke like that. Yet the Mormon people are trusting their eternal salvation in a system set up by him. See Daniel 4:28-33. King Nebuchadnezzar had such pride and was driven out to live with the animals by God. Just one month after delivering the above quoted speech, Joseph Smith was killed by a mob but only after he had shot and killed two of the mob himself. History of the Church, Vol. 7, pp. 102, 103). * * * * * You have indicated that no "prophet" ever spoke as Joseph Smith did about his own accomplishments. Did you forget about Moses boasting so much over his bringing water from the rock (See Num. 20:10) that the Lord forbid him to enter the promised land? Paul himself said that "I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles" (II Cor. 11:5), and also that he had "labored more abundantly" than all the Apostles (I Cor. 15:10). When Joseph Smith said that "the followers of Jesus ran away from Him", he was referring to the disciples becoming offended in Him and thus leaving Him. Even Peter denied knowing Him (See Mat. 26:31-35), all of which was the fulfillment of an ancient Old Testament prophecy (Zech. 13:7) that these disciples would be offended and flee from Him. It is not difficult to believe that Joseph Smith was correct when he said, "No man ever did such a work as I." He established a church that has successfully withstood the greatest political and religious outrages for over 150 years. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of the most dominant churches in the world with five million members. He published a book that is second only to the Bible in number of publications. [4] * * * * * MORMON LEADERS' VIEW OF THEMSELVES "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy." Improvement Era (Official church magazine), June 1945, p. 345. "The living Prophet is more vital to us than the Standard Works (Bible, Book at Mormon, Etc.). The living Prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet (David, Moses, Isaiah, etc.). Those who would remove prophets from politics would take God out of government. Ezra Taft Benson (Next in line to be Prophet), address at Brigham Young University, Feb. 26, 1980. THE BIBLE: In these last days God speaks through His Son (Hebrews 1:1-2). The authority claimed by the Mormon Church is through an "Aaronic Priesthood," which cannot be valid since Jesus abolished it, as He took its place (Hebrews 7:11-19, 8:6-13); and a "Melchizedek Priesthood" which never existed as any "priesthood." Jesus is our High Priest in the likeness of Melchizedek@-He holds this permanently and no one else! (Hebrews 7:15-28, 9:11-15). * * * * * It is not difficult to understand why the ministers of today say there is no priesthood--they are admitting that they don't have it! If they do not possess it, then it is reasonable that they also don't understand it. At least you fellows admit the truth by saying that Jesus held it but you don't! In ancient Israel men received a holy "anointing". This was administered to those who would hold a priestly office, as did Aaron. This was a priesthood which "shall surely be an everlasting priesthood" and that it would be a "priesthood throughout their generations" (Ex. 40:15). Furthermore, this priesthood was to follow in certain lineages such as with Phineas, son of Aaron, who "shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God" (Num. 25:13). It would be foolish in the extreme to suppose that the seed of all these men had suddenly stopped when Christ was born; or that no one else would be worthy of it because there were none who were, or ever would be "zealous" for God. You say that "In these last days God speaks through His Son." Who are those who have received God's word in "these last days" if it isn't prophets--just as God has always delivered His messages? Have you fellows turned prophets or revelators? Or are you going around with just a Bible like all the other ministers who claim "God's Words" is with you alone? Surely "no man taketh this honor unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron" (Heb. 5:4). Although they did not require the offering up of animal sacrifices after the sacrifice of Christ, they were still required to have "an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices" (I Peter 2:5). Furthermore, Peter testified that they were of that special lineage by saying "ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people" (I Peter 2:9). Surely the priesthood could not be found among all the hostile Christian campaigners, for it would be an offense to God. |
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Jesus Ex-mormons To Response
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| [5] * * * * * MORMONISM DENIES VIRGIN BIRTH "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers--Christ was born into the world as the literal son of this Holy Being he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father." Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 742 THE BIBLE: Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost. Mary was indeed a virgin.( Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:35) * * * * * Mormons do not deny that Mary was a virgin. Quite a few women get married today who are virgins; and when they conceive a child, it is begotten of a father. If all the Protestant ministers claim that Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost, then they should cease calling Him the Son of God--because He would be the Son of the Holy Ghost. We read that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost, even "from his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15) Also Mary was "found with child of the Holy Ghost". (Mat. 1:18) The difference between these two was that "the power of the Highest" overshadowed Mary. Then the sentence continues to say that Jesus would be known as "the Son of God." (Luke 1:35) The scriptures continually call Him the Son of God, but never the Son of the Holy Ghost. For instance, God is called the Father and Jesus is the Son (see John 8:38; 17:11); "Christ is born of God" (I John 5:1); Jesus is the "only begotten Son" (Mat. 14:33; Mark 1:1; John 3:16); and Jesus admitted, "I am the Son of God." (Mat. 27:43) one of the reasons that Jesus was crucified is because He made the claim to be the "Son of God". (John 19:7) It is all too evident that if Jesus were begotten of the Holy Ghost, then all ministers should refrain from allowing any women to have the Holy Ghost, lest she, too, become pregnant and thereby conceive another only begotten "Son of God". [6] * * * * * THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE DENIED "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors--many plain and precious things were deleted, in consequence of which error and falsehood poured into the various churches. One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings now extant among men." Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp 82, 83. THE BIBLE: The Bible says of itself that God@s Word therein will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8; I Peter 1:25) Ask the Mormon to show you exactly where the errors exist. Since most of the doctrines added by Mormonism are not in the Book of Mormon either (which is claimed to contain the "fullness of the everlasting gospel," the "plain and precious things" did not make it in there either! If you fellows are not aware of any errors in the Bible, it is evident that you have never read it carefully. There is a train of errors that could be mentioned, but it is certainly not worth the time or effort to list them here. However, in response to your request, a few examples are-- Reporting Errors: The crucifixion was the most important event in the history of the world. Four disciples of Christ were supposed to have been witnesses, or at least to have correctly reported that event. However, they each reported a different inscription on the cross: Matthew: "This is Jesus the King of the Jews". (27:37) Mark: "The King of the Jews." (15:26) Luke: "This is the King of the Jews". (23:38) John: "Jesus of Nazareth the King of the Jews". (19:19) Contradictional Errors: "No man hath seen God at any time." (I John 4:12) Jacob said, "I have seen God face to face." (Gen. 32:30) "And the Lord appeared unto" Abraham. (Gen. 18:1) "And Noah walked with God." (Gen. 6:9) "The Lord spoke unto Moses, face to face." (Ex. 33:11) "And I saw the Lord standing upon the altar." (Amos 9:1) "I saw the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." (Acts 7:56) Quoting Errors: "And it repented the Lord that he had made man,..." (Gen. 6:6) "God is not a man that he should lie; neither the son of that he should repent." (Num. 23:19) [7] Mistaken Identity Errors: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Gen. 1:1) " appointed heir of all thing", by whom also he made the worlds." (Heb. 1:2) English Errors: "And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden." (Gen. 3:8) If anyone is really interested in locating all the errors in the Bible, there are books written on the subject. There is a popular paperback edition being sold for $4.95 called Discrepancies in the Bible that you should read if you are still not convinced that there are Biblical errors. There are over 1,000 Christian churches in the United States alone, all with the same Bible, but all claiming the others are wrong and they are right. This is a clear manifestation that either the Bible is incomplete and contains errors, or that the ministers are all in error. However, it is probably both. Some claim that we must be baptized under the water; others by sprinkling, or by pouring; and some believe only in baptism of the spirit. Yet, some contend that we need no baptism at all--that Jesus did it for us. Such confusions exist with every other principle and ordinance, also. Even the translators have trouble. They have been tirelessly trying to get an error-proof Bible for many centuries, with new ones being published constantly. We now have over 450 different Bibles to choose from--they are either to correct errors of previous editions or to convince others of their personal beliefs. Out of all this confusion, contention and corruption, it is no wonder that God sent a prophet like Joseph Smith to help people understand the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. [8] * * * * * MRS. GOD? "In the heaven where our spirits were born there are many Gods, each of whom has his own wife or wives, which were given to him previous to his redemption while yet in his mortal state." Orson Pratt (Apostle), The Seer, p. 37. "This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in all plainness by the First Presidency of the Church." Bruce R. McConkie (Apostle), Mormon Doctrine, p. 516 BIBLE: Absolutely no mention of any "wives" of God! (Matthew 22:29, 30) * * * * * You have asked the question about "Mrs. God", but the Bible doesn't say anything about Mr. God either. Your terminology is quite clever, but it should apply to other conditions, too. If you think that Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost, then Mary should have been called Mrs. Holy Ghost! We don't see anywhere in the Bible that Eve became Mrs. Adam either. The principle to be considered in marriage is that which was introduced with marriage itself and has continued throughout all nations ever since: the woman's desire and life would be in subjection "to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" (Gen. 3:16), and that she would become "one flesh" with him. She would not have a separate identity as before, and she would take upon herself his name. Look in your local phone book and notice that for married couples, they have listed only the man's name there! Or do you believe that all those men are unmarried, too! We were all born as spirits to our Father (and Mother) in heaven before we came here, as Paul taught by saying "we are the offspring of God" (Acts 17:29) and "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God". (Rom. 8:16) He continued by explaining, "Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence; shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" (Heb. 12:9) Even the ancient prophet knew this, as Jeremiah was told by the Lord, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer. 1:5) Neither can we omit such a clear passage as, "God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. (Gen. 1:26) and so "God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen. 1:27) If you do not believe that we are the children of our Father in heaven, then cease to pray as Jesus told us to by saying, "Our Father in heaven". (Mat. 6:9) |
Response To The Ex-mormons For Jesus Studies Doctrine Mormon
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| [9] * * * * * MORMONISM'S GOD IS LIMITED "The universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain him as such--if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or sense of justice of these intelligences they would promptly withdraw their support, and the "power" of God would disintegrate--He would cease to be God." W. Cleon Skousen (BYU Professor & Founder of Mormon-based Freemen Institute), The First 2000 Years, p. 355. "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22. "If God possesses a form, that form is of necessity of definite proportions, and therefore of limited extension and space. It is impossible for Him to occupy at one time more than one space of such limits. James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 43. THE BIBLE: God is infinite! Any other "god" is a false "god." (2 Chronicles 6:18; Psalm 139:4-8; Jeremiah 23:24) * * * * * You claim that God is infinite. By this it is presumed that you also believe He is in all things, through all things, everywhere present and no place in particular. Many ministers say their god is infinite and therefore he is immaterial, "whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere". This philosophical absurdity portends a god that has no dimension, no figure, no personage, and therefore he must be extremely difficult to find. A god who has no ears to hear, nor eyes to see, and who has no parts or passions, would be a sorry god to pray to and expect some kind of answer! No wonder the Protestants and Catholics haven't heard anything from him for nearly 2,000 years! These preachers testify of a god who has no dimensions or substance--but that is a description of nothing! I have always suspected that the Protestants weren't worshipping anything, but now they confirm it! Ancient heathens worshipped gods of stone and wood--but at least they existed. These modern apostate ministers want us to worship nothing! Here we have a most unusual situation--two kinds of atheists. One class denies the existence of God at all; but the others deny his existence in duration, space and form. One says, "There is no Gods; but the other says, "God is not here or there." The infidel says, "God does not exist anywhere"; but the Immaterialist says, "He exists nowhere." The infidel says, "There is no such substance as God"; and the Immaterialists say, "There is no substance in God." One atheist believes that there is nothing to God, and the other believes that God is nothing! If there is anything in the doctrines of the Catholics and Protestants that would prevent me from joining them, it would be the idea that I had to pray to a god that had no existence! It would also completely discourage me from trying to became like him! You say that you are in the ministry to save the Mormons. I would suggest that you save your prayers, and save your missionary labors--in fact, try to save yourselves. Pray for yourself, labor with yourself and get away from becoming "one" in likeness to that god--for it would mean annihilation! [10] * * * * * MORMONISM'S GOD WAS ONCE A MAN "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man--I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form--like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man--He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth." Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305. THE BIBLE: God was never a man. He created man! God has been God from all eternity to all eternity. (Psalm 41:13, 90:2, 102:25-27; Romans 1:22-23) * * * * * The ministers of modern Christianity who believe that God is nowhere, everywhere, in everything, without form or substance, would naturally not believe that God was once a man. It is impossible for nothing to have once been something. It takes a real prophet to clarify such stupid traditions and philosophies. Let me quote the Prophet Joseph Smith: It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God Himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible. The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again? Do we believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one. . . . My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so much hath been said. (T.P.J.S., see pp. 345-48) [11] A young boy grows up to become a man like his father. When Jesus told His disciples to "go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father" (John 20:17), He was not speaking in generalities. There is no son without a father, and the scriptures clearly support this doctrine. It is the ancient Greek and Roman philosophies that crept into Catholicism and changed the pure doctrines of Christ into this ethereal and mystical hogwash which has continued to be preached by the apostates from Catholicism. All the Protestants are apostates from Catholicism, and they brought many of these heathen philosophies of men with them and continue to call it "The Gospel of Christ." |
Jesus Ex-mormons To Response
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| [12] * * * * * MORMONISM'S JESUS WAS MARRIED Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage at Cana of Galilee. --We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed." Orson Hyde (Apostle), Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2. p. 82. THE BIBLE: NO! Check out John 2:1-12! This doctrine generally is not taught today. However, since marriage in a Mormon Temple is mandatory to progress to become a god in Mormonism, to fit the theology of Mormonism the Mormon "Jesus" had to be married. Otherwise, He would only be a ministering servant to those in Mormonism's heaven who have "celestial marriage." * * * * * God said it was not good for man to be alone, and so man and women were created in the image and likeness of God, and they were to be "one flesh". That described the condition of God and man. The law and commandment to "be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" (Gen. 1:28) was never revoked or changed. Even Paul the Apostle confirmed this by saying "neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." (I Cor. 11:11) Furthermore, "the women is the glory of the man." (I Cor. 11:7) It was a gnostic philosophy that crept into Christianity teaching them that celibacy is more holy than matrimony. Any student of Catholicism can soon discover the gradual changes that crept into the Catholic faith with regard to this pagan philosophy. When the Protestants rejected the mother church, they took with them all those traditions and false doctrines concerning marriage. Paul prophesied that this would happen and said that some people would give heed to these "doctrines of devils" by "forbidding to marry." (See I Tim. 4:1-3) From the ages of twelve to thirty, a gap of 18 years, the scriptural history of the life of Christ is missing. This is the very time when men usually marry. John the Beloved said all the things that Jesus did would be enough to "fill libraries;" so we can conclude the reason why there is so little said about the marriage of Jesus. If we had the missing books of the New Testament, which we know were written, it might give us much more light upon this history. Some of these "lost" books are-- An earlier epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (I Cor. 5:9) Another epistle of Paul to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3) An epistle of Paul from Laodicea (Col. 4:16) A former epistle of Jude (Jude 1:3) The prophecies of Enoch (Jude 1:14) All through the New Testament Jesus was called Rabbi. He was so called by Peter (Mark 9:5), by the other disciples (John 1:38, 4:31, 9:2); and even Nicodemus, a Pharisee and ruler of the Jews, also called Him a Rabbi. (John 3:2) Now then, a Rabbi was a teacher by precept and by example. If Jesus had been a celibate teacher of the law, then all of his accusers would have had their greatest reason to denounce Him. He would not be fulfilling the commandments and laws of God concerning marriage. This law is still in vogue among the Hebrew people: [13] Every Jewish man should marry at eighteen, and he who marries earlier is more meritorious. (The Shalchan Aruch, Eben Haezer 1:3) Since the Mishnah fixes the eighteenth year of one's life as the age of marriage, a man unmarried after this time is, in many communities, regarded as not having conformed with inviolable tradition. (Jewish Ceremonies and Customs, William Rosenau, p. 155) Both ancient and modern scholars of the Bible admit that all of the Apostles were married men. It is an admitted fact that the Old Testament law required that a man should be 30 years of age and married in order to become a priest. This is why Jesus did not get baptized, anointed, nor begin his ministry until He was 30 years old. In the Greek text of the New Testament there is no difference in the word "wife" or "woman", and the scriptures inform us that Jesus was often with a woman. The Protestant minister, Dr. Phipps, admitted that "master" was a common term for husband. . . . words such as those used by Martha when she said to Mary, her sister: "The Master is come and calleth for thee." (John 11:28) "Master" was the title that a wife used when speaking of her husband. (Was Jesus Married?, p. 17) Some of the Dead Sea Scrolls are now being uncovered and are revealing that Jesus was married. "The Gospel of Thomas" (p. 57) and "The Gospel of Philip" (p. 35) show more evidence for this fact. You said to check out John 2:1-12, which is the account of the marriage at Cana. In my book Jesus Was Married, Chapter 5 deals with the Jewish customs and traditions showing that this would have to have been Christ's marriage. This subject could be extended considerably, but it is only too reasonable that Jesus never omitted the fulfillment of any of the laws of God. He could not obey some, neglect others, and then say to all mankind, "Follow Me". If you fellows believe that Jesus was celibate, then you should not only teach everyone to be like Him and not marry, but also refuse to have anything to do with marriage yourself! Do you suppose that Jesus was too holy to be married? Or, was the law of marriage too unholy for Jesus? If so, then God should never have given man such a law when He created him. Neither should Jesus have participated in the marriage at Cana, nor endorsed anyone including His Apostles to have a wife. Such thinking and deductions are preposterous. But that is what you ministers of modern Christianity are trying to sustain as true doctrine. [14] * * * * * IN MORMONISM THERE ARE MANY GODS "In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it--in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods." Joseph Smith, (Founder and First Prophet), History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 308 & 474. THE BIBLE: There was and is and always will be only ONE GOD! (Isaiah 43:10-11, 44:6-8. 45:5-6, 18-22; Deuteronomy 6:4, 32:39: James 2:19) * * * * * You say that there "was and is and always will be only one God", but Paul clearly explained, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many) but to us there is but one God,..." (I Cor. 8:5-6) There was certainly more than one member of the Godhead in the creation, for it is written that "God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness." (Gen. 1:26) John agreed by saying, "There are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (I John 5:7) Now there exists a perfect confusion among the Catholics and Protestants about these three being one. But three cannot be one; because if they were one, they would no longer be three. But they are one in purpose. Jesus is separate from His Father because He admitted that "my Father is greater than I". (John 14:28) And a little later He told Mary, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father." (John 20:17) We also note that when Jesus prayed in Gethsemane, that it was his will to let the bitter cup pass, but the will of the Father was otherwise. He asked, "thy will not mine be done". But most graphically we have a better illustration of three distinct personages at the baptism of Jesus: And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Mat. 3:16-17) Here was (1) Jesus being baptized, (2) God speaking from heaven, and (3) the Holy Spirit descending. Also we are told in the scriptures that the devil is "the god of this worlds". (II Cor. 4:4) And even Moses became a god. "And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet." (Ex. 7:1) This brings us up to the next item for discussion. |
Jesus Ex-mormons To Response
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| [15] * * * * * MORMONISM SAYS MAN MAY BECOME GOD "Here then is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God the same as all gods have done before you--To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of God." Joseph Smith History of the Church Vol. 6. p 306 THE BIBLE: The sin of Satan from the beginning was that many may become a god! (Genesis 3:1-5; Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:1-10) * * * * * Some of you ministers think that heaven is where you will spend eternity "staring at the face of Jesus", but most ministers really don't know what they will be doing. A Mormon will tell you that he expects to continue growing in wisdom and knowledge forever. I prefer the latter to anything I have ever heard from any other religion, especially some of the Protestants. Paul tells us that we belong to "the whole family in heaven. (Eph. 4:15), and Peter tells us that we can be "heirs together of the grace of life" (I Peter 3:7) and thus prepare for ourselves a little family kingdom. Paul also testifies that "we are the children of God" and "heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ". (Rom. 8:16-17) God Himself testified that "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son". (Rev. 21:7) John also added that we are "the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; . . ." (I John 3:2) Jesus gave us something to consider in our eternal destiny when He said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". (Mat. 5:48) It will be a long, long time before we can become as perfect as our Father in heaven is--yet Jesus was saying that it could be done or He wouldn't have given us that commandment. Furthermore, "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" (John 10:34), which was also written by David: "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High". (Psalms 83:6) One of the last prayers of Jesus was that we might become "one even as we are one; I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one". (John 17:22-23) to become one with Him and joint heirs with Him, would make us Gods with Him. One of the most important things to be revealed to man was clearly illustrated in the creation of man: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Gen. 3:5) [16] This was verified by God himself who said: And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. (Gen. 3:22) Man was meant to have the experience of this life to draw him closer to God in every respect--it was a life that could bring him God-ward, or to become a God himself. This was told to Moses: Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. (Ex. 18:19-20) This was repeated by Paul who said that "such trust have we through Christ to God-ward" (2 Cor. 3:4) and that we must add faith to God-ward" (I Thes. 1:8). This doctrine of becoming a God is not as opposed as it once was. Even Protestant ministers are beginning to see the God-family where some of the sons of the Father grow to become like their Father, thus becoming Gods over their own children. For instance, the honorable Herbert W. Armstrong has said in support of this principle: God embarked on His greatest undertaking! He began the process of reproducing himself by creating man (and woman) out of dust from the ground! * * * Yet, although God formed man of the dust of the ground--physical matter--God has given man a far greater potentiality than angels. In man, God is reproducing himself! Man has the potentiality of becoming God! Man shall, when his spiritual creation is completed, judge angels (I Cor. 6:3). Few indeed have ever really grasped the marvelous breathtaking potential of man! By the very fact that God, through man, is reproducing Himself, we know man, when his spiritual creation is completed, shall actually become God! Only God the Father will always remain supreme in authority and command, and Christ second in command, above all else. *** Everywhere we look we can see each animal, bird, microbe and plant reproducing itself. In Genesis 1:26, God (Elohim) is quoted as saying: . . . Let us make man in our image. . . ." God is reproducing Himself! How very plain that should be to us rational, thinking individuals. We humans are to be made in the very image of God! We are to become "Gods" ourselves. [17] . . . man's ultimate destiny is to become a part of the God family. Notice John's first letter once again: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he as he is. (I John 3:2, KJV). Can you grasp what John is saying here? Even as God became man, so man may become God! The two planes are interchangeable under certain conditions. Man is to become just as much God as Christ is God. That in a nutshell is the transcendent purpose of human life (The God Family, Herbert W. Armstrong, p. 8) We also note that it is written that John "looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads". (Rev. 14:1) Thus, out of all the people on the earth there will be 144,000 who will have the name of God written on their foreheads, because they became like their Father in heaven--a God. [18] * * * * * IF YOU ARE A MORMON: Some of the above quotations may not sound like the Mormon Church you know and love. The Church is filled with beautiful and sincere people. We know, because we were there. We love you and care for your eternal destiny--but must stand against the system that teaches such doctrine. If you add up the years we have spent in the Church, there would be thousands. We cry out to you: The "God" and "Jesus" of Mormonism will not save you. We did not leave the church to simply join another organization. We left after realizing that JESUS is THE WAY and THE TRUTH and THE LIFE. The real Jesus who died for you personally said in Revelation 3:20 that if you open the door of your heart, He will come in. The Mormon Church has a percentage growth that is impressive. Ex-Mormons for Jesus is growing far more rapidly, with ministries starting in a new area around the world virtually every week. There is FREEDOM out here with Jesus! There is something better than Mormonism. There is a personal day by day relationship with the only Jesus that has the power to give you eternal life! * * * * * MISSIONARIES AT YOUR DOOR In 1977 the California Arcadia Mission sent out a directive to the Mormon missionaries entitled: THE BAPTIZE NOW PLAN--Teach to commit--Don't make the people think too much--Baptism must be our prime goal!" We know the missionary strategy well. Many of us were formerly missionaries for the Church. When they come to your door, asking to help you start a "Family Home Evening" or to tell you about their Church, ask them to give you the real "meat of the gospel" as above; not just the "milk" that sounds appealing but is designed to make you doubt your current faith and lead you into a system. They will constantly repeat a "testimony of the truthfulness of the Church" and ask you to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it to receive your own "testimony"--What they want is a feeling, or a "Burning in the bosom." If you ignore the facts, Satan can cause you to experience feelings and sensations. Why not do as recorded in Acts 17:11 and check the "meat" of Mormonism out with God's Word, the Bible! Why pray about the Book of Mormon? * * * * * [19] You say that "Ex-Mormons for Jesus" is growing, but so is wickedness. We live in a time of trouble--the time that Jesus said would be filled with false Christs, false prophets, deceptions and strong delusions. The efforts of all these Priestcrafters would become so convincing that they would almost deceive the "very elect"--but not quite! These instruments of that old dragon, the devil, "which deceiveth the whole world" (Rev. 12:9) are really necessary instruments in the Lord's hands to separate the wheat and tares (Mat. 25:33). It is out of this great separation that many will learn that-- . . . wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it". (Mat. 7:13-14) But what is the great dividing line between the rest of the world and those few that find the "narrow way"? The Apostle Paul warned the Galatians that "if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:9) Yet Paul admits, "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able." (I Cor. 3:2) But what was worse, the devil's "ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness." (II Cor. 11:15) Apostasy had already occurred in the Christian churches. Paul said, "Ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." (Heb. 5:12) Jesus said that His faithful and wise servants in the last days would be teaching "meat in due season". (See Mat. 24:45-46 & Luke 12:42.) But where is this meat of the gospel among these Protestant churches? All we hear is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Is this strong meat or milk? What are the "pearls" of the Gospel that were not to be cast before the swine? (Mat. 7:6) It is evident that today's money-market ministers are only peddling milk--and they can't even agree on what that is! Talk about confusion and Babylon! The only time they seem to find agreement is when they are maligning Joseph Smith. And now the apostates have joined with them to organize their own little "Ex-Mormons" club to fight their former church. But I know it will do little good to try reclaiming them, for it is almost impossible for those who were once enlightened "to renew them again unto repentance." (Heb. 6:6) [20] Most of the nations of the earth are calling themselves "Christians, yet we live in an age which has brought these nations into military clashes--over 150 since World War II. But man will soon see worse things than these--famine, pestilence, earthquakes, and disease. Why? Because they have rejected God's restored Gospel and fought against His latter-day prophet. Joseph Smith was persecuted and driven nearly all his life, and finally the "Christians" killed him. When he was driven out of Missouri by mobs, ministers, and government officials, he told them they would soon face the cannon's mouth in war. In detail he described the Civil War--where it would start, when it would begin, who would be involved, and what the final result would be. He died 15 years before it happened, but it transpired exactly as he said it would! The worst part of the war occurred in the very places that raised most of the hostility against the Mormons! The Prophet Joseph Smith also left many more prophecies that will soon come to pass. He gave us many revelations which became scripture, because "all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine. . . ." (II Tim. 3:16) If any of the ministers of today speak by inspiration, where is their scripture--and what do they have for doctrine? Do they have any meat or pearls to reveal to us? I have never seen any coming from any other pulpit or any other church. Strange that all these ministers have their religion on men who talked with God--but when a man in our day talks to God, they fight against him! I know there are many good and sincere people among the Protestant churches, and we love all you people, but we just cannot swallow your religious conglomeration of confusion and error. I am convinced, however, that if there is any fault to be found with the Mormon Church today, it is only that they are inclined to become a little too much like the rest of your churches! Sincerely, Ogden Kraut |
TOPIC: Response To The Ex-mormons For Jesus