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Close Topic OptionsMoses, Elijah, Translated Beings / Spirit World..
Moses Elijah Translated Beings / Spirit World - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 9th Jan, 2008 - 8:14am
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Post Date: 2nd Jan, 2008 - 7:50am / Post ID: #
Moses, Elijah, Translated Beings / Spirit World..
This is a topic I have always wondered.
Dt. 34:5 we read on the account of Moses' Death.
in D&C 110: 13
| QUOTE |
| "Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death" |
President Joseph Fielding Smith said:
| QUOTE |
| Moses, like Elijah, was taken up without tasting death, because he had a mission to perform. . . . |
(Doctrines of Salvation, 2:107, 110-11)
We are to understand that they were translated being..
An important and essential matter for a translated being, is to have a tangible body.
D&C 138 is the account of Joseph F. Smith's vision on the spirit world.
Hence the word "SPIRIT WORLD"
It brings the account on How the Lord prepared the preaching of the gospel in the spirit world.
a good summary we read from the pre-text:
1-10, President Joseph F. Smith ponders upon the writings of Peter and our Lord's visit to the spirit world; 11-24, He sees the righteous dead assembled in paradise and Christ's ministry among them; 25-37, How the preaching of the gospel was organized among the spirits; 38-52, President Smith sees Adam, Eve, and many of the holy prophets in the spirit world who considered their spirit state before their resurrection as a bondage; 53-60, The righteous dead of this day continue their labors in the world of spirits.
I'd like to call the attention to verses
41:
We are to understand that they were translated being..
An important and essential matter for a translated being, is to have a tangible body.
D&C 138 is the account of Joseph F. Smith's vision on the spirit world.
Hence the word "SPIRIT WORLD"
It brings the account on How the Lord prepared the preaching of the gospel in the spirit world.
a good summary we read from the pre-text:
1-10, President Joseph F. Smith ponders upon the writings of Peter and our Lord's visit to the spirit world; 11-24, He sees the righteous dead assembled in paradise and Christ's ministry among them; 25-37, How the preaching of the gospel was organized among the spirits; 38-52, President Smith sees Adam, Eve, and many of the holy prophets in the spirit world who considered their spirit state before their resurrection as a bondage; 53-60, The righteous dead of this day continue their labors in the world of spirits.
I'd like to call the attention to verses
41:
| QUOTE |
| "Noah, who gave warning of the flood; Shem, the great high priest; Abraham, the father of the faithful; Isaac, Jacob, and Moses, the great glaw-giver of Israel" |
45: "Elias, who was with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration;"
The way I understand it is that President Smith saw Moses and Elijah at the spirit world.
How can they be at the spirit world if they are translated beings?
Just a thought, now that I am doing more research I might have a possible answer...
but I was wondering what you guys thought
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World Spirit Beings Translated Elijah Moses
| QUOTE (riverai5 @ 2-Jan 08, 3:50 AM) |
| 45: "Elias, who was with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration;" The way I understand it is that President Smith saw Moses and Elijah at the spirit world. How can they be at the spirit world if they are translated beings? |
Elias is not necessarily related to Elijah. Elias is a title given and has been used to describe several people. Joseph Smith said:
| QUOTE |
| "The spirit of Elias is first, Elijah second, and Messiah last. Elias is a forerunner to prepare the way, and the spirit and power of Elijah is to come after, holding the keys of power, building the Temple to the capstone, placing the seals of the Melchizedek Priesthood upon the house of Israel, and making all things ready; then Messiah comes to His Temple, which is last of all" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 340). |
Also from the LDS Bible Dictionary:
| QUOTE |
| The title Elias has also been applied to many others for specific missions or restorative functions that they are to fulfill, for example, John the Revelator (D&C 77: 14); and Noah or Gabriel (D&C 27: 6-7, cf. Luke 1: 11-20). A man called Elias apparently lived in mortality in the days of Abraham, who committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple on April 3, 1836 (D&C 110: 12). We have no specific information as to the details of his mortal life or ministry. Thus the word Elias has many applications and has been placed upon many persons as a title pertaining to both preparatory and restorative functions. It is evident from the questions they asked that both the Jewish leaders and the disciples of Jesus knew something about the doctrine of Elias, but the fragmentary information in our current Bibles is not sufficient to give an adequate understanding of what was involved in use of the term. Only by divine revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith is this topic brought into focus for us who live in the last days. |
Post Date: 2nd Jan, 2008 - 8:36pm / Post ID: #
Moses, Elijah, Translated Beings / Spirit World.. Studies Doctrine Mormon
Thank you LDS_forevever for that reply...
I am very well aware of the meaning of the word Elias and the quotes from Joseph Smith. It is true. Elias does not necessarily mean Elijah....
Yet, I still believe that "Elias" in this context is Elijah himself.
| QUOTE |
| "The priesthood is everlasting. The Savior, Moses, and Elias [Elijah, in other words] gave the keys to Peter, James, and John, on the Mount when they were transfigured before him.The priesthood is everlasting-without beginning of days or end of years; without father, mother, etc. If there is no change of ordinances, there is no change of priesthood. Wherever the ordinances of the gospel are administered, there is the priesthood. . . . Christ is the Great High Priest; Adam next." [Smith, Teachings, p. 158.] |
Joseph Smith himself said it was Elijah....Therefore, the Elias at the Mount of Transfiguration is Elijah....
at least in that context...and you are right, it doesn't mean Elias is always Elijah...
The question still stands...how can a translated being be at the spirit world?
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World Spirit Beings Translated Elijah Moses
I first off want to thank you for starting this thread as I have always been interested in translated beings.
| Rather off topic, but... Please forgive me for being a little slow in understanding, this is one reason I love this forum so much. When I try and study something it gets all jumbled in my head and overwhelms me but if I can ask questions and sort them out--I do a lot better! |
First off, after reading some of your points and looking up the scriptures you referenced, I have to say I don't think I ever picked out that it said Moses actually died and was buried by the Lord. I had always heard the Lord took him unto himself so I guess I never thought about it. My understanding so far then is that the Old Testament is being clarified in the modern day scriptures, is that right? It seems that it would have to be one way or the other?
I did some looking in the bible dictionary, I was trying to remember the difference, if any, in translated vs. transfigured. I didn't find anything specific to either word but did find this in the LDS Bible Dictionary and thought it at least answered whether Elijah and Elias was the same person as you thought riveria5:
| QUOTE |
| BIBLE DICTIONARY Transfiguration, Mount of This very important event in the N.T. occurred about a week after the promise made to Peter that he would receive the keys of the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 16: 13-18; Matt. 17: 1-9). On the mount (probably Mount Hermon) the Savior, Moses, and Elias (Elijah) gave the promised keys of the priesthood to Peter, James, and John (HC 3: 387)... They also saw a vision of the earth as it will appear in its future glorified condition saw and conversed with Moses and Elijah, two translated beings;... Few events in the Bible equal it in importance. A similar event occurred on April 3, 1836, in the temple at Kirtland, Ohio, where the same heavenly messengers conferred priesthood keys upon the Prophet Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery (D&C 110). |
In reading this, I think that a transfigured being is someone who is changed temporarily to be able to abide in the presence of the Lord? and that translated is someone who is changed to something permanently in this life, at least not tasting death until they have been twinkled. Is that correct?
Post Date: 3rd Jan, 2008 - 6:09am / Post ID: #
Moses, Elijah, Translated Beings / Spirit World..
First off, after reading some of your points and looking up the scriptures you referenced, I have to say I don't think I ever picked out that it said Moses actually died and was buried by the Lord.
Moses did not die....
| QUOTE |
| ""The Old Testament account that Moses died and was buried by the hand of the Lord in an unknown grave is an error. (Deut. 34:5-7.) It is true that he may have been "buried by the hand of the Lord," if that expression is a figure of speech which means that he was translated. But the Book of Mormon account, in recording that Alma "was taken up by the Spirit," says, 'the scriptures saith the Lord took Moses unto himself; and we suppose that he has also received Alma in the spirit, unto himself." (Alma 45:18-19.) It should be remembered that the Nephites had the Brass Plates, and that they were the 'scriptures" which gave the account of Moses being taken by way of translation." (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 805.)" |
Modern revelation has and will continue to clarify that which is said in Old testament.
alaskan lds you have come to good conclusions about a transfigured being and a translated being....
I do find it hard to believe Zelph, that a translated being can go into worlds. Then again the whole idea of a translated being is supernatural. Yet, I don't think anything 'tangilbe' can abide in the spirit world....that would defeat the whole purpose. You say 'quickened by the spirit"......They lose their bodies? then renew it again?
I don't know....I don't think anything scriptural is said about it..
but oh well...
I think now, they had a mission to perform. They were translated to give priesthood keys to Peter James and John. In order to do that, you need to have a body. President Joseph Fielding Smith talks about that. Since that was their mission, then I think now that after they had done that...they lost their bodies and translated nature. Therefore, go to the spirit world.
Now as for 1836, they must've come as resurrected beings.
Thats the only conclusion I can come to.
| Message Edited... JB: Use the quote tags! |
Moses Elijah Translated Beings / Spirit World..
I am not sure that there is any scriptural or modern revelation that implicitly states that translated or resurrected beings cannot be in the spirit world for a limited amount of time if the Lord directs. Are there not instances where individuals have visited or seen the spirit world in there bodies (I.e. Joseph Smith Moses)
Post Date: 9th Jan, 2008 - 8:14am / Post ID: #
Moses Elijah Translated Beings / Spirit World.. Mormon Doctrine Studies
We read in alma 40;11
| QUOTE |
| "concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection" |
I doubt a resurrected being can be in the spirit world... let alone a translated being...(they are still mortals)
I agree of instances of individuals seeing the spirit world....but visiting? I don't know who and what references.
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TOPIC: Moses, Elijah, Translated Beings / Spirit World..