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Rape In Lds Culture - Page 2

Dbackers, thanks for posting your frank opinion.

The idea of rape not being related to sex is not mine of course. If you search about the matter you will find a lot of resources that clearly explains why.

The reason rape is not related to sex is that the rapist finds excitement and satisfaction from the power he is using over the victim and NOT on the satisfaction he is getting from sex. As stated before, if he wanted sex so much there are so many ways he could get it....hence it is not about sexual gratification but a gratification that comes from seeing the victim suffering, from knowing they have control over her/him, from being in "charge".

Culture Lds Rape

Thank You for the explanation.
It makes a lot of sense.
I had talked with my wife about the Subject last night and she agrees with you on this (wives have a way of setting us straight).

On the other topics, I am not sure we teach in the church ( at least not that I am aware of) that young girls loose their chastity if they are raped.

At least when it comes to official church doctrine. The policy states:

and in For the Strength of the Youth Fulfilling our Duty to God

It seems pretty clear that the Church does not blame the victim. Some individual members on the other hand, may, out of their own ignorance or biases treat the issue differently.

Rape In Lds Culture Studies Doctrine Mormon

I agree Dbackers. In the past, I don't think it was like that. Personally I know a woman who went less active after she was raped and her Bishop asked her the "extend of her responsibility" on the incident. Unfortunately, many still thinking this way and the victims cannot get the proper help they need. We need to ensure the leaders get the proper training they need .

Page 2 Culture Lds Rape

Hi all,
I've been following this discussion and found a few quotes that have been alluded too. I thought I'd share them in all their bluntness.

The first is President Kimball in "The Miracle of Forgiveness"

The next ones are also in the same book, but originally said by different prophets,

Bruce R. Mckonkie said this in Mormon Doctrine,

And finally, about "the extent of the victims responsibility," Elder Scott gave quite a talk on abuse at general conference.

Hmmm... as I was trying to absorb all they wrote, I found this comment written on a blog, Nauvoo Forum and thought it was worth adding...
In a May 1, 2006 post,
In President Kimballs recent autobiographical update, his son says that in later life Pres. Kimball decided that his wording was harsher than it needed to be.

What he was apparently trying to do with the book was to counter the trend that he saw to excuse sin, or a little sin, or to suggest that repentance from sin was easy. He wanted people to understand that the Lord cannot

.

I do not object to Pres. Kimball's words about rape per se. People who are raped will be required to repent of the things they did do against the commandments, though obviously not anything they couldn't do. For instance, in cases of date rape (the most common type of rape today) in which alcohol or drugs are involved (also extraordinarily high), a rape victim might need to repent from drinking, from choosing to be with others who were drinking, from ignoring promptings of the Holy Spirit to go home or to not go into a bedroom or off alone without their friends, from inappropriate sexual contact before the rape, even though they did NOT consent to sex and were raped, and do not have to repent from the rape accordingly.

I think that we see his words as harsh only if we fail to understand that the Lord judges based on what we do as well as our capability and intention to do good or evil. AND WE ARE NEVER PUNISHED BY HIM FOR OTHER'S TRANSGRESSIONS OR SINS.

I agree that rape victims should not be victimized a second time by being made to feel guilty and I'm quite sure the Lord knows more than our sometimes harsh judges (friends, acquaintances and church members) However, I also feel that we can get ourselves into compromising situations by our own choices. While we bear no responsibility for another's sin, we have been given an exhaustive list of standards to keep, just for the purpose of keeping us out of these compromising situations which then could lead to actions far beyond our control.

Message Edited... JB: Fixed your quote tags, please check it over after posting.

Culture Lds Rape

Val, great quotes and insights! Thanks for sharing. For those who were wondering the position of the Church with regards to chastity and rape, the quotes provided speak for themselves. I DO have a problem with some of those quotes and I think now days the Church have distanced itself from some of these thoughts (fortunately).

Rape In Lds Culture

Why do you think that is LDS? I know you are as strong on your opinion as those of us who see it the other way. I think it is interesting that what the church's view on it can be so confusing. I know that there are doctrines that are hard to accept--the church has a few of those I think but are they hard because it goes against our own feelings, especially when we have strong feelings against what is said? Is there actually quotes that say the church has distanced themselves or is it something that is not dwelt on much? Is that the same thing?

I have a hard time with the wording on the first quote:

In the bolded area, he states that she is in a more favorable position but then in the next sentence says that there is NO CONDEMNATION where there is no voluntary participation. It seems that they should say the same thing but the wording is hard to understand for me.

Rape Lds Culture - Page 2

AlaskanLDS:

First of all, I do not consider the opinion of different leaders on this subject a matter of "doctrine" but merely that, opinions from different Church leaders. For me there is a big difference (as discussed in another thread about what is doctrine and what is opinion). You won't find quotes that specifically mentions that the Church have distanced itself from this type of thinking but throughout Church history we have several examples of opinions of "men" on topics that are quite sensitive (the most recent example is the Blacks and the Priesthood). Bruce R. Mc Conkie have stated in General Conference that Blacks would never be able to hold the Priesthood in this mortality, he was wrong...plain wrong and admitted it later on. Was his opinion? Of course it was, same applies to early leaders of the Church talking about the "negro". Do we hear nowdays from Church leaders that Black people are not as intelligent as Whites or that they were less valiant in the Pre-existence? Nope, we don't hear that anymore and that's the way the Church distances itself from opinions/views that no longer applies in the time that they have been stated.

I am not trying to go offtopic, but I just made mention of that example to show how the Church distances itself from statements that will now be consider horrendous and cruel.

I have a problem with the wording as well because if in fact the woman cooperated and contributed to the rape itself, then is it rape? It is not, in my opinion.

Rape Lds Culture Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

There are several reasons that some members think that the victim had some consent. One of these reasons is the false idea that members think that God would not allow such a horrible thing, like rape, to happen to a worthy, active, member.
I have a question. If a rapist had a gun to your head, or to even to your spouse, or children, and told you to accept it. Do you say, "Just shoot." or do you say, "If you don't harm my family, then I will"?

Rather off topic, but... I feel that I do need to point out that men get raped too.